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Old May 17th, 2005, 11:01 AM   #1
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J30 custom, J32A2, J35A* swap

Based on flood of recent PMs I will be going through some write up with personal observation/experience and suggestion to those hardcore individuals who want to do custom J30A1 or swaps with either J32A2 or J35A* and what parts interchangable. That way it will be clear of what makes sense to do and what not.

I will start after lunch .
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'06 GTO 4-speed AUTO (Monaro conversion)
New setup: Forged 408ci (6.7L) All-motor coming - 53Xwhp/50Xwtq
Old time 11.16@121mph . Best trap - 123.4mph


'11 BMW X5 twin-turbo
'02 J32A2 AV6 - 12.8@108.7mph (sold)
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Old May 17th, 2005, 12:15 PM   #2
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I'd settle for just a 5 speed or a 6 speed

I think that the J30A1 has a lot of potential if done right.
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Old May 17th, 2005, 01:29 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor_X
I'd settle for just a 5 speed or a 6 speed

I think that the J30A1 has a lot of potential if done right.

yeah but why go with a 3.0 when u can go to a 3.5
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Old May 17th, 2005, 01:58 PM   #4
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3.5 would be best if doing custom but more expensive than 3.0-3.1
Custom 3.0-3.1 can generate better mid-high gains with more boost than stock 3.5

The info is coming soon

Last edited by 02AV6; May 17th, 2005 at 02:00 PM..
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Old May 17th, 2005, 02:06 PM   #5
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Before I start laying out the options, an aftermarket transmission is essential when you choose to stay NA (naturally aspirated) or going FI (force induction) route.
The current aftermarket transmissions available:
1. Dr. EVil with LSD ($4000)
2. Less expensive unit (different company) is currently being produced/tested

Custom J30A1 (Accord V6) - turbo application:

Option 1: stock J30A1 block/heads/IM/TB
Option 2: stock J30A1 block/J32A2 heads/J32A2 upper/lower manifold/J32A2 TB.

If I start all over again building the custom block with forged JE (9.0:1) pistons and Crower rods along with custom iron sleeves and new crankshaft I would definitely choose turbo path.

For starters, the low compression and stronger than stock listed internals can withstand up to 20psi or so. The current Comptech supercharger with supplied blower (Eaton/Magnuson model MP62) pretty much maxing out at 10-10.5psi, so it's limited in generating more boost if desired. In order to utilize extra boost, the next upgrade can be MP90 model which CT doesn't sell and can be purchased directly from Eaton/Magnuson distributors. However to fit the unit is the big issue since it's wider than MP62 and it also required to modify inlet/outlet to function properly. With that however in mind, if properly done that unit can spin enough to generate up to 15-16psi. Thus, in my opinion MP90 is out of the question and money required to make it happened (~$2500) can be rather invested in custom turbo application to utilize extra boost.

BTW, choosing the stock AV6 block is less expensive option since all you have to do is to keep your block and order just custom sleeves/pistons/rods and new strong stock crankshaft. I've heard from my installer as well as others Acura/Honda mechanics that Honda produce amazing crankshaft so that's a keeper.

Now back to turbo. Single ball-bearing turbo by Garrett is the way to go with the GT35 model. It produces full boost starting from 2600rpm all the way to redline. All other options are up to the owner and/or the shop who will be doing it.

Now, the famous cylinder heads and manifold questions:

Again the less expensive way is to keep the stock heads, stock manifold (upper/lower) and bore the stock 60mm TB (throttle body) up to 4mm when adding turbo. The J32A2 cam swap going to help some but I wouldn't change VTEC x point just leaving as it is.

The other option which is great is to get J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) heads, lower (injector base) /upper manifold (intake manifold) and J32A2 TB. The gains here are great in mid-range and top-end. Even if you do a J32A2 cam swap into J30A1 heads the gains will still be less since J32A2 have larger intake valves along with larger round shape intake runners/ports, thus the air flow going to be significantly more generating extra power. In addition, stock J32A2 66mm TB can be ported up to 70-71mm getting even more gains.

This option is also perfect for choosing either J32A2 (3.2L) or J35A* (3.5L) blocks

Porting in polishing

IMO, the J30A1 heads/ manifold is not worth it since with the money spent the gains will be minimal. That is also applies to J32A2 heads/manifold since I've seen on cl board people gain very little with money spent.

Gaskets

If using stock heads/manifold just get stock gasket kits. Both FRONT cyl. head gasket kit ($171.48) and REAR cyl. head gasket kit (includes IM too - $83.96) can be purchased at hondaautomotiveparts.com (these prices are based on 2002 AV6). Also, both of those kits include 2 head gaskets that you place on the block and bolt it up both cyl.heads. In addition, I recommend getting new head studs (16) since they tend to stretch with added heat especially when you plan on adding supercharger or turbo (item called BOLT-WASHER (12X163) and priced at $5.38 at the same web site). APR makes great head studs, however not yet available for our cars.

When using J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) heads/manifold you obviosly need those.
Both FRONT J32A2 cyl. head gasket kit ($136.66) and REAR J32A2 cyl. head kit (included IM too - $119.77) can be purchased at acuraautomotiveparts.org (these prices are based on 2003 CL-S auto). Again, both kits include important head gaskets and just in case you need them as a separate item it's priced at $27.30 each (need 2). Also, keep in mind to get new head studs as explained in the above paragraph. The head studs needed are 16 (8 for each head) they called "BOLT-WASHER (12X163)" and the price is $5.91 each on the above mentioned acuraautomotiveparts.org site. Also you would need to purchase 6 new CL-S fuel injectors rated at 270cc vs 250cc on AV6 and CL-S/TL-S TB (throttle body).

Keep in mind your stock ECU controls everything.
Finally the torque from the line would be nothing spectular untill your turbo kicks in .

Advantage:
Custom internals provide best boost potential for turbo (assuming safe Air/Fuel ratio).

Disadvantage:
a. J30A1 pistons have to be modified (valve pockets metal removal) to have clearance for large J32A2 intake valves. This have to be done only if planning to add J32A2 cylinder heads, etc.

Updated valve specs:
J30A1 '98-02 AV6: 34mm/29mm (intake/exhaust)
J32A2 '01-03 TL-S/CL-S: 36mm/30mm

b. Torque is a little less than J32 but not significant as J35.

Summary: If plan to add turbo on stock J30A1 block - custom low CR pistons/rods are a must. If sleeves are in bad condition they have to be replaced.
The rest is simply bolt on. Higly recommend new engine/transmission mounts, gasket kits, new Denso Iridium IK22 plugs, belts.

If planning to swap stock cyl. heads with J32A2, J30A1 pistons have to be modified as mentioned above. You would also need the following J32A2 parts: injector base (lower manifold) including fuel rails, fuel injectors, upper manifold and throttle body, and new head studs.

Final word,

IMO, either keep stock cyl. heads/manifold/tb or get J32A2 short block along with J32A2 upper/lower manifold and throttle body. This would be a better choice since no J30A1 pistons or any modifications needed, therefore it will be a simple swap. However, keep in mind this option is better for supercharger since as mentioned Comptech blower is maxing out the efficiency and would be limited to run at 8.5-9psi with this option and 10-11psi with stock heads. These maximum values of boost are used assuming custom intercooler added with fuel management unit like E-Manage.

Also coming soon :

J32A2/J32A2 swap details (auto) - for detailed 6MT list look somewhere else
J35A4/J32A2 swap concrete details (auto)
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'06 GTO 4-speed AUTO (Monaro conversion)
New setup: Forged 408ci (6.7L) All-motor coming - 53Xwhp/50Xwtq
Old time 11.16@121mph . Best trap - 123.4mph


'11 BMW X5 twin-turbo
'02 J32A2 AV6 - 12.8@108.7mph (sold)

Last edited by 02AV6; March 2nd, 2006 at 03:11 PM..
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Old May 17th, 2005, 02:08 PM   #6
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you're my hero! i cant wait to see this write-up.
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Old May 17th, 2005, 03:00 PM   #7
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J30A1 write up basically done.

Tomorrow J32A2 and J35A* details including parts.
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'06 GTO 4-speed AUTO (Monaro conversion)
New setup: Forged 408ci (6.7L) All-motor coming - 53Xwhp/50Xwtq
Old time 11.16@121mph . Best trap - 123.4mph


'11 BMW X5 twin-turbo
'02 J32A2 AV6 - 12.8@108.7mph (sold)
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Old May 17th, 2005, 03:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tw02av6
lol
or why go with a 3.0 when you can go 3.1 or 3.2 and have that sweet sweet powerband!!

hey dead
wats ur plans
u got the block already??
wat else u getting??
u also have the heads too right??
My Current Project
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Old May 17th, 2005, 11:19 PM   #9
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where to get TB bored?
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Old May 17th, 2005, 11:21 PM   #10
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Old May 18th, 2005, 02:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02AV6
The current Comptech supercharger with supplied blower (Eaton/Magnuson model MP62) pretty much maxing out at 10-10.5psi, so it's limited in generating more boost if desired. In order to utilize extra boost, the next upgrade can be MP90 model which CT doesn't sell and can be purchased directly from Eaton/Magnuson distributors. However to fit the unit is the big issue since it's wider than MP62 and it also required to modify inlet/outlet to function properly. With that however in mind, if properly done that unit can spin enough to generate up to 15-16psi. Thus, in my opinion MP90 is out of the question and money required to make it happened (~$2500) can be rather invested in custom turbo application to utilize extra boost.
Good info. I didn't realize their other units were so close in size specifications.

Honestly, looking at the blower in the engine bay, i don't think the extra width would be an issue in fitment. However, what would be an issue, as you have already mentioned, is the outlet port flange, the inlet port flange, and the also the driveshaft mating flange would also have to be re-done. But that'd be sweet to have that extra power out of a blower (I know most would just want to go the turbo route).
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Old May 18th, 2005, 02:37 AM   #12
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All I want for Christmas is a new 6 speed... a new 6 speed... a new six speed...
*music plays in background*

*Edit*
Turbo apps would be killer
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Old May 18th, 2005, 02:40 AM   #13
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Great thread so far .
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Old May 18th, 2005, 09:20 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -=SoCalV6=-
Good info. I didn't realize their other units were so close in size specifications.

Honestly, looking at the blower in the engine bay, i don't think the extra width would be an issue in fitment. However, what would be an issue, as you have already mentioned, is the outlet port flange, the inlet port flange, and the also the driveshaft mating flange would also have to be re-done. But that'd be sweet to have that extra power out of a blower (I know most would just want to go the turbo route).
Yep, it can be fit. Here is the drawing comparison:




Once inlet/outlet modified it can deliver some serious power despite extra loss at the wheels to spin the damn thing. But as I mentioned in my "Block ready...." thread it will be like a chain reaction to require additional part by part, i.e. extra large injectors, probably 1:1 FPR, more E-Manage tuning (which is fine), pulleys and who knows what else. Hmmm, food for thought
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'06 GTO 4-speed AUTO (Monaro conversion)
New setup: Forged 408ci (6.7L) All-motor coming - 53Xwhp/50Xwtq
Old time 11.16@121mph . Best trap - 123.4mph


'11 BMW X5 twin-turbo
'02 J32A2 AV6 - 12.8@108.7mph (sold)
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Old May 18th, 2005, 09:45 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tw02av6
hey serge
wat about gaskets or anything?
if people do block swaps, will they need any gaskets or anything or is it just a swap
what about when heads come in and manifold comes in

oh and p.s.

Good point on gaskets since i was thinking to add that on J32/J35. I will edit ^ soon.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tw02av6
so y would it be better to go with another block then the av6 one?
It depends on the goals, but usually more displacement = more power. The AV6 stock block specifically is nothing special but the custom one has a great potential in terms of longevity and can withstand crazy amount of boost (if tuned right).
Also, as stated in 6gen. FAQ the lack of power in AV6 is known due to VTEC-E 'economy' with so so cams, conservative ignition, low compression and other insignificant specs compared to CL-S.
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'06 GTO 4-speed AUTO (Monaro conversion)
New setup: Forged 408ci (6.7L) All-motor coming - 53Xwhp/50Xwtq
Old time 11.16@121mph . Best trap - 123.4mph


'11 BMW X5 twin-turbo
'02 J32A2 AV6 - 12.8@108.7mph (sold)
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Old May 18th, 2005, 01:32 PM   #16
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AH!!
great info!!
keep em coming please
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Old May 18th, 2005, 03:57 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02AV6
Yep, it can be fit. Here is the drawing comparison:




Once inlet/outlet modified it can deliver some serious power despite extra loss at the wheels to spin the damn thing. But as I mentioned in my "Block ready...." thread it will be like a chain reaction to require additional part by part, i.e. extra large injectors, probably 1:1 FPR, more E-Manage tuning (which is fine), pulleys and who knows what else. Hmmm, food for thought
Hehe, that's what Aeromotive's for:

http://www.aeromotiveinc.com/



-or-



Fuel Rails, High output fuel pumps, 1:1 fpr's, custom sump fuel tanks, constant voltage fuel controllers.

Last edited by -=SoCalV6=-; May 18th, 2005 at 03:59 PM..
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Old May 18th, 2005, 04:01 PM   #18
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In addition, since I'm using CL-S stock injectors I found Honda S2K has the same shape stockers estimated to be 360cc so it will fit without any modification
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'06 GTO 4-speed AUTO (Monaro conversion)
New setup: Forged 408ci (6.7L) All-motor coming - 53Xwhp/50Xwtq
Old time 11.16@121mph . Best trap - 123.4mph


'11 BMW X5 twin-turbo
'02 J32A2 AV6 - 12.8@108.7mph (sold)
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Old May 18th, 2005, 04:04 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02AV6


In addition, since I'm using CL-S stock injectors I found Honda S2K has the same shape stockers estimated to be 360cc so it will fit without any modification

Nice...what are the CL-S Injectors rated at?
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Old May 18th, 2005, 04:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -=SoCalV6=-
Nice...what are the CL-S Injectors rated at?
270cc but with E-Manage I checked the duty cycle still has room up to 10-11%

Last edited by 02AV6; May 18th, 2005 at 04:45 PM..
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Old May 18th, 2005, 04:50 PM   #21
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So roughly 300cc's. So is that maxed out at 80% duty cycle?

Last edited by -=SoCalV6=-; May 18th, 2005 at 04:53 PM..
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Old May 18th, 2005, 11:55 PM   #22
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Pretty much. I was testing E-Manage and it showed total duty cycle at 83% while the normal duty came to 71% as expected

Here is the real time screen

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'06 GTO 4-speed AUTO (Monaro conversion)
New setup: Forged 408ci (6.7L) All-motor coming - 53Xwhp/50Xwtq
Old time 11.16@121mph . Best trap - 123.4mph


'11 BMW X5 twin-turbo
'02 J32A2 AV6 - 12.8@108.7mph (sold)
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Old May 19th, 2005, 05:23 AM   #23
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Nice, I didn't know injectors could go passed 80%. Must be only possible with e-manage
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Old May 19th, 2005, 08:54 AM   #24
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it's a nice program to deliver enough fuel and has an ability to add additional injector(s) if necessary. And as you can see it can retard timing which is very important when you in boost where I set the starting point at 6000rpm all the way to redline . Actually, the current setting are -1 degrees at 6K and -2 at 6,5K rpm since I added more fuel.
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'06 GTO 4-speed AUTO (Monaro conversion)
New setup: Forged 408ci (6.7L) All-motor coming - 53Xwhp/50Xwtq
Old time 11.16@121mph . Best trap - 123.4mph


'11 BMW X5 twin-turbo
'02 J32A2 AV6 - 12.8@108.7mph (sold)
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Old May 23rd, 2005, 03:11 PM   #25
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I'm not just busy lately

Updated page 1 (post #9) - J30A1/J30A1 and J30A1/J32A2 options.

Next are write up on J32A2/J32A2 and J35A4/J32A2. The reason I say J35A4 (specifically '04 MDX pistons) because it might work our with better clearance on J32A2 valves when bolting up J32A2 heads. Will find out soon with upcoming details.

Stay tune....
Are the pistons different from 01-02 and 03-04 MDx?
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Old May 23rd, 2005, 03:17 PM   #26
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Quote:
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Are the pistons different from 01-02 and 03-04 MDx?
Don't know. I will find out in a couple of days however, if '04 MDX pistons are different from '04 Odyssey
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'06 GTO 4-speed AUTO (Monaro conversion)
New setup: Forged 408ci (6.7L) All-motor coming - 53Xwhp/50Xwtq
Old time 11.16@121mph . Best trap - 123.4mph


'11 BMW X5 twin-turbo
'02 J32A2 AV6 - 12.8@108.7mph (sold)
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Old May 23rd, 2005, 05:14 PM   #27
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Quote:
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Don't know. I will find out in a couple of days however, if '04 MDX pistons are different from '04 Odyssey
This will be very interesting.. Will you be taking measurements? or just test fitting? I sense an upgrade in your future.. near future that is..

Last edited by CL SLeePeR; May 23rd, 2005 at 05:16 PM..
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Old May 23rd, 2005, 05:21 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CL SLeePeR
This will be very interesting.. Will you be taking measurements? or just test fitting? I sense an upgrade in your future.. near future that is..
Not needed. Odyssey valve pockets = MDX. Same pistons.

on second question
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'06 GTO 4-speed AUTO (Monaro conversion)
New setup: Forged 408ci (6.7L) All-motor coming - 53Xwhp/50Xwtq
Old time 11.16@121mph . Best trap - 123.4mph


'11 BMW X5 twin-turbo
'02 J32A2 AV6 - 12.8@108.7mph (sold)

Last edited by 02AV6; June 23rd, 2005 at 02:50 PM..
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Old May 26th, 2005, 03:07 PM   #29
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Here are the swap options along with brief advantage(s)/disadvantage(s):

BLOCK/HEADS (incl. manifold (upper/lower), tb)
------------------
J30A1/J30A1
advantage: no modification needed.
disadvantage: no torque until turbo/sc kicks in.

J30A1/J32A2
advantage: mid-range and top-end power
disadvantage: J30A1 pistons have to be modified to fit large J32A2 (intake) valves.
Not much torque until turbo/sc kicks in.

J32A2/J32A2
advantage: no modification needed, mid-range, top-end power.
disadvantage: torque is still ok but better than J30A1

J35A4/J30A1 (Odyssey '02-04/ '00-02 Accord V6)
advantage: no modifications needed, adequate torque, adequate mid-range
disadvantage:needed better cams, large intake valves for overal better powerband, top-end power

Option 1:
If budget is limited the solution is to swap J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) cams into stock J30A1(Accord V6) cyl. heads (see sticky CL-S swap and Cam machining).

Option 2:
Get J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) complete cyl. heads + IM (intake manifold)
But requires different pistons (see J35/J32 below) to clear J32A2 valves.

J35A3/J35A3 (Acura MDX '01-02), J35A4/J35A4 (Honda Odyssey '02-04)
advantage: no modifications needed, great torque, nice mid-range
disadvantage: little less air flow than J32A2 but very close.

This option looks like a good choice if getting the complete engine or even separate short block and cyl. heads/manifold due to a price. And MDX the cyl. heads are the same part # as CL-S, however intake valves and cams are different than CL-S but overall much better than pathetic AV6.

J35A1/J32A2 (Odyssey '01/CL-S '01-03)
advantage: great entire powerband and especially torque.
disadvantage: Need CL-S or RL pistons.

Note: Same options apply as listed below.

J35A3/J32A2 ('01-02 MDX/CL-S '01-03) or J35A4/J32A2 (Odyssey '02-04/CL-S '01-03)
advantage: great entire powerband and especially torque.
disadvantage: Need CL-S or RL pistons.

There are also couple options:

Option 1
With '01-02 complete MDX block or '02-04 Odyssey complete block (crank/rods/pistons) it is required to purchase 2005 Acura RL pistons (new set $50 each) This is a best option still since these pistons have clearance for large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves thus no modification needed. Despite the fact they have higher 11.0:1 CR still even supercharger can be used here with low boost up to 7psi intercooled (assuming safe AFR). In addition, if 11:1 CR is too high for you, you can use '03 CL-S pistons with 10.5:1 CR.

Option 2
'01-03 J32A2 block (CL-S)
Required to purchase the following:

-= hondaautomotiveparts.com =-
'02-'04 Odyssey (crankshaft)
Product No. 368270 or
Honda part #13310-PGK-A00

'02-'04 Odyssey (connecting rod)
Product No. 368269 or
Honda part #13210-PGK-A00

Main bearings + rod bearings

-= acuraautomotiveparts.org =-
'03 CL-S (pistons) - 10.5:1 CR or
'05 RL (pistons) - 11.0:1 CR

pistons rings (per chosen model)

Note: Odyssey pistons do not have clearance to fit large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves. Solution - custom job to increase valve pockets.

BTW, The only advantage to get J32A2 block is due to better cylinder sleeves to withstand heat designed for higher redline vehicle, otherwise depending on the price Odyssey or MDX block are the best bet.

Keep in mind, J35A5 '03-04 MDX will not fit on 6th gen. AV6/CL/TL/CL-S/TL-S due to different design, and looks like only for 7th gen. AV6.

Edit: The correct valve dimensions now stand as follows: incl. J30A4/J32A4

J30A1 '98-02 AV6: 34mm/29mm (intake/exhaust)
J30A4 '03+ AV6: 35mm/30mm

J32A1 '01-03' TL/CL: 34mm/30mm
J32A2 '01-03 TL-S/CL-S: 36mm/30mm
J32A4 '04+ TL: 35mm/30mm

J35A1 '99-01 Odyssey: 34mm/29mm
J35A4 '02-04 Odyssey: 35mm/30mm
__________________

'06 GTO 4-speed AUTO (Monaro conversion)
New setup: Forged 408ci (6.7L) All-motor coming - 53Xwhp/50Xwtq
Old time 11.16@121mph . Best trap - 123.4mph


'11 BMW X5 twin-turbo
'02 J32A2 AV6 - 12.8@108.7mph (sold)

Last edited by 02AV6; March 2nd, 2006 at 03:25 PM..
02AV6 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old May 26th, 2005, 03:23 PM   #30
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Wow ! Man, thanks for sharing :
This is a great info for kids who looking for a swap
alt04 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
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