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Old June 20th, 2003, 12:10 PM   #1
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What Is Up With My System?

Hey Y'all...

I have a modest "system" in my 99 Accord's trunk; it consists of a massive sealed box containing two Rockford Punch XLC 15s and a Rockford Punch 800.2 amp to power them; the amp is running in bridged mode, with the wiring of the subs in parallel. I have been pleased with the overall sound quality of the stock deck in this car, as well as the speakers, so I didnt want to change the head. What I did want is earth-shaking bass---not sound quality--added to the factory system; and so, I went with these 15's...

Problem is, folks, NO ONE hears me coming when I crank it up, and it really doesnt sound like this amp is putting out the advertised "800 watts" mono to be honest; first, let me tell you how my installer friend set everything up (and he installed everything in front of me)...originally running the amp in stereo mode to these two 15s yielded unsatisfactory results for me, so I told him to go ahead and run it in bridged...once he did this, the sound immediately slammed harder. What he did was, he took the positive leads from each terminal on back of the sub box and twisted those together and did the same with the negative leads...then took those and fed the combined positive leads to the left "+" terminal of the amp, and fed the combined negative leads to the "-" of the amp; he said this way, both subs are getting the bridged signal of the amp and they are wired in "parallel"...is this correct? The box is facing backwards in my trunk; that is, when you open the trunk, you see the subs facing you...and he has the box pushed right up against the back seat wall...is this right? I was told this would give the most boom...

Now, the specs for this amp say 200 watts x 2 stereo, 400 watts x 2 (at 4 ohms?) and 800 watts x 1 mono bridged. My installer hooked this up to have the amp running bridged, so what is my system seeing? Am I getting the advertised 800 watts x 1, or supposed to be getting that? Being that I have two subs, is that 800 watts being broken up into, say, around 400 watts a piece? (of course, this is all just estimated; Im sure the amp isnt running on 100 percent efficiency)

Now, here are the other problems...why isnt this enough power for my bass to be heard outside the vehicle? Is it because I am running these 15s in a sealed box and not ported? Is it because the box is trapped in a sealed trunk with no port to the passenger cabin? Is it because its being controlled from a factory head unit, coupled with an RCA converter running inline between the rear 6X9s (for tapped signal) and the amp? Shouldnt 800 or so watts be enough to rattle cars next to me at a light? This is not what Im experiencing at all---and my friend tells me he turned the gains on the amp way up AND the gains on the RCA converter way up---he insures me this is all correct. Also, he did use high quality Lightning Audio install kits and wiring throught the job, so the wiring isnt a problem, nor is the installation; I watched him do the whole thing, and everything was done clean....thick, 4 gauge power cable and everything...

Some have told me these subwoofers are the problem...the Rockford Punch XLCs, that is...that I need to get some Kicker L7s in there or perhaps some good MTXs...but I have been searching the Net and have found that many soundoff competition vehicles have had XLC subs in them and put up some good numbers on the IASCA circuit; I know these things are only supposed to handle 200 watts RMS or so, but the power from this 800.2 amp bridged has not blown these yet, nor caused any kind of distortion...I dont get it. Also, I need to turn my head unit's volume up past halfway to really get the bass rockin'....is this normal in a system? Does it take any of your systems to be turned up kind of loud before others can hear the bass coming?

Thanks in advance for any light you can shed....
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:05 PM   #2
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My gawd.. I have no words on this.. everyone please refer to this thread

http://www.v6performance.net/forums/...066&forumid=18

and then onto the honda-acura.net threads that were also created upon this very question.. after several threads and many many many many many many many suggestions/opinions/advice... this question is again REPOSTED? When will the insanity stop!? (Perhaps when this guy sells his accord and buy a Camry)
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:11 PM   #3
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DJ Scotty: r u a dj in the NY area
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:13 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by L_fty on June 20th, 2003 at 08:05 PM



My gawd.. I have no words on this.. everyone please refer to this thread

http://www.v6performance.net/forums/...066&forumid=18

and then onto the honda-acura.net threads that were also created upon this very question.. after several threads and many many many many many many many suggestions/opinions/advice... this question is again REPOSTED? When will the insanity stop!? (Perhaps when this guy sells his accord and buy a Camry)
Do me a favor, Donkeyballs, please dont respond to this post if it is giving you this kind of trouble with your Depends...you dont need to crap your pants every time you read my posts, do you? People on here have been rather helpful inspite of all your imperfections; BUT---TO YOUR CREDIT---I must say this....I did go back and read some of AcuraFanatic's suggestions he made regarding doing mods to this sixth generation vehicle, and he did have very valid, heartfelt opinions--as did Schmiddy. So, one of your links did prove useful. I was just seeing what other folks in here had to say about this. The suggestions are helping me decide whether or not I want to modify the vehicle more, or hold out to buy something new with four doors. But thanks for supplying one of those links, because I actually recalled what a genunie human being actually had to suggest regarding my contemplations for a further modded sixth gen...

Nahhhhhhh...I wouldnt buy a Camry, Donkeyballs! I think Im gonna get outta this import game if I do sell the Accord; did you see those awfully high-riding tail lamps on the new Camry? Once again, this thing is a Lexus ES 300 knock-off, as the Avalon is a wanna-be LS400....
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:15 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Loulax07 on June 20th, 2003 at 08:11 PM

DJ Scotty: r u a dj in the NY area
I have done Palladium and Webster Hall, and had my own business at one point
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:17 PM   #6
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lemme ask u this, does it have enuf bass inside your car?
if so, why do u care about people hearin u come?
i am researching the amp as we speak
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:18 PM   #7
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"Nahhhhhhh...I wouldnt buy a Camry, Donkeyballs! I think Im gonna get outta this import game if I do sell the Accord; did you see those awfully high-riding tail lamps on the new Camry? Once again, this thing is a Lexus ES 300 knock-off, as the Avalon is a wanna-be LS400...."

I'll ignore the rest of your comments for now... but I do agree on the bloated camry... simply hideous and the ES300 is the car that was created by a drunken blind man. But of course the age group who buys this car is in the upper 50s.. I have to scratch my eyes until they bleed everytime I see a ES300 drives by in that god-awful shape.
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:18 PM   #8
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scotty get a line out converter (not the kind you hook up to speaker wires to get RCAs), i dont know if you can find one but what it will do is boost your RCA outputs to a higher voltage. The higher voltage you have gives you cleaner power and in turn it will hit harder. Either that or get a radio w/ a higher voltage preamp output (4v). I'm elling a Pioneer w/ 4v preamps if your interested. $200 shipped
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:21 PM   #9
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the amp is 400 watts x 2 at 2 ohms, which is what you are getting now when you are in parallel.....
u can ONLY get 800W for one speaker.bridged....

Last edited by Loulax07; June 20th, 2003 at 01:24 PM..
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Loulax07 on June 20th, 2003 at 08:17 PM

lemme ask u this, does it have enuf bass inside your car?
if so, why do u care about people hearin u come?
i am researching the amp as we speak
Well, the bass is rather hella strong inside....but I really was looking for that "curb performance" that some bass enthusiasts want....its just what Im looking for...I wanted people to be able to hear the rolled-off "boom....boom....boom...." from a distance which I THOUGHT 15s would provide; but, this IS a sealed box, and perhaps this is whats wrong....I was just looking for out of car performance; its just what I wanted....
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:25 PM   #11
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i suggest posting on caraudioforum.com
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by L_fty on June 20th, 2003 at 08:18 PM

"Nahhhhhhh...I wouldnt buy a Camry, Donkeyballs! I think Im gonna get outta this import game if I do sell the Accord; did you see those awfully high-riding tail lamps on the new Camry? Once again, this thing is a Lexus ES 300 knock-off, as the Avalon is a wanna-be LS400...."

I'll ignore the rest of your comments for now... but I do agree on the bloated camry... simply hideous and the ES300 is the car that was created by a drunken blind man. But of course the age group who buys this car is in the upper 50s.. I have to scratch my eyes until they bleed everytime I see a ES300 drives by in that god-awful shape.
Hahahahha...I hear ya....someone's gotta drop a missle on that Toyota plant....what are they smokin over there? Oh, by the way, that last response I made to you about finding an old link you provided? That should have been posted in the other forum, the Accord forum, not here in electronics; it posted here by accident.
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:27 PM   #13
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if u can get me more info on your subs, i can look into this further
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by smokedoutv6 on June 20th, 2003 at 08:18 PM

scotty get a line out converter (not the kind you hook up to speaker wires to get RCAs), i dont know if you can find one but what it will do is boost your RCA outputs to a higher voltage. The higher voltage you have gives you cleaner power and in turn it will hit harder. Either that or get a radio w/ a higher voltage preamp output (4v). I'm elling a Pioneer w/ 4v preamps if your interested. $200 shipped
Thanks a lot, smoked! Do you really think this has something to do with the stock head? I have been told this time and again; could the stock head be robbing the subs and amp of potential power/performance?
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Loulax07 on June 20th, 2003 at 08:21 PM

the amp is 400 watts x 2 at 2 ohms, which is what you are getting now when you are in parallel.....
u can ONLY get 800W for one speaker.bridged....
Yeah, but isnt 800 watts x 1 BEING SPLIT BETWEEN TWO SUBS the same as each sub getting 400 watts? Well, what Im asking is, if the amp "sees" the bridged load and connection, which it is, does it matter how many subs are being hooked up to it? Does it know? So, I have two subs connected, but the amp is still bridged---still TRYING to put out 800 watts, so wouldnt that wattage just be split into the two subs----approximately 400 apiece?
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Loulax07 on June 20th, 2003 at 08:27 PM

if u can get me more info on your subs, i can look into this further
They are the Rockford Punch XLC 15 inch subs; I BELIEVE 4 ohm versions....
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:33 PM   #17
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are they DVC's? (dual voice coils)
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Loulax07 on June 20th, 2003 at 08:33 PM

are they DVC's? (dual voice coils)
****....I never found that out....see, what I failed to put in my original post was that this box was pre-fabbed, and bought off the shelf from a car audio shop as-is; the woofers were installed already...I dont know if there are SVC or DVC; damn....can you assume each for me, as you make your suggestions? Thanks for all your help, by the way....
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:38 PM   #19
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DVC's have 2 sets of terminals on the back, 4 terminals total......
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:39 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Loulax07 on June 20th, 2003 at 08:21 PM

the amp is 400 watts x 2 at 2 ohms, which is what you are getting now when you are in parallel.....
u can ONLY get 800W for one speaker.bridged....
Oh, and by the way, Louie, I was thinking about what you said here...I dont think the amp could be putting out ANYTHING "X2" because it is wired in such a way that its running for output to ONE CHANNEL---the speaker wires from the subs are feeding into the amp to run in BRIDGED MODE---you see? So is it possible the amp is putting out anything x 2 channels this way? I think its only configured into "thinking" it should be running into just ONE CHANNEL because its bridged...do you understand what Im saying, or am I wrong?
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:39 PM   #21
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see, if u have 2-DVC's, you will be showing 1ohm across the speakers if you run all parallel. i dont know if the amp is stable down to 1ohm.....

L_fty?????
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:40 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Loulax07 on June 20th, 2003 at 08:38 PM

DVC's have 2 sets of terminals on the back, 4 terminals total......
There are only 2 sets of terminals on the back of the sub box...left and right....(with positive and negative clips for each, of course....)
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:41 PM   #23
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i'd say, first thing, you need a clean signal to the amp. get a good headunit. my head got 6V preouts. also, dont grab the signal off the rear speakers, get a true sub out from the head. u can fine tune it much better
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:42 PM   #24
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i meant on back of the speaker itself, not the box
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:46 PM   #25
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http://www.carsound.com/
http://www.caraudioforum.com/
http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:46 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Loulax07 on June 20th, 2003 at 08:41 PM

i'd say, first thing, you need a clean signal to the amp. get a good headunit. my head got 6V preouts. also, dont grab the signal off the rear speakers, get a true sub out from the head. u can fine tune it much better
Well, the reason my installer did it like that, off the rear speakers, was because we needed to run an RCA converter because of the stock unit's lack of RCA outs, so he tapped signal off the rear speaker chain....could this be causing the robbing of power? If my head unit had a true sub out, we would have used it! But its stock, my man....
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Old June 20th, 2003, 01:53 PM   #27
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Well if the bass is hella strong inside the car, then why do you want it even louder, especially if you are going to be driving around with it.... say good bye to your hearing.

But as you really don't care for the quality of the bass or your hearing, then this is what you can do. Get away from a sealed enclosure, as a ported or bandpass enclosure will sound much louder.... I would go with bandpass for your setup. Get a new headunit as well as your have a double din available, go ahead and use it. Get something that has high voltage out's so the signal that is getting to the amp is a little stronger and cleaner.

Now this is the one that will get everyone's attention, so this is what you need. Get an aluminum container that you can close... the thinner the better. Put a bunch of bolts and other stuff that will rattle around like crazy... and put it in your trunk. That way every time the bass hits you will get a high frequency rattle to go along with it.... as bass in not directional, you can get the rattle that is directional, so people can tell where you are coming from.

People will know that you are coming down the block like that... hehe.
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Old June 20th, 2003, 02:00 PM   #28
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Originally posted by Bravo1 on June 20th, 2003 at 08:53 PM

Well if the bass is hella strong inside the car, then why do you want it even louder, especially if you are going to be driving around with it.... say good bye to your hearing.

But as you really don't care for the quality of the bass or your hearing, then this is what you can do. Get away from a sealed enclosure, as a ported or bandpass enclosure will sound much louder.... I would go with bandpass for your setup. Get a new headunit as well as your have a double din available, go ahead and use it. Get something that has high voltage out's so the signal that is getting to the amp is a little stronger and cleaner.

Now this is the one that will get everyone's attention, so this is what you need. Get an aluminum container that you can close... the thinner the better. Put a bunch of bolts and other stuff that will rattle around like crazy... and put it in your trunk. That way every time the bass hits you will get a high frequency rattle to go along with it.... as bass in not directional, you can get the rattle that is directional, so people can tell where you are coming from.

People will know that you are coming down the block like that... hehe.
Thanks for your suggestion regarding switching to a ported enclosure; but let me ask you this: in your opinion, do you think this will make a massive difference being that the box is STILL going to be trapped in my trunk, with my seats folded up? Would a ported box sound that much different than the sealed one, even stuck in the same trunk closed in? Its not like this is a hatchback or SUV, where the passenger cabin is all open and the bass can simply flood the passenger area....
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Old June 20th, 2003, 02:02 PM   #29
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is your box filled with polyfill?
also check to see if all terminals on back of the speakers r connected, if they have 4 terminals per speaker
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Old June 20th, 2003, 02:06 PM   #30
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Originally posted by Loulax07 on June 20th, 2003 at 09:02 PM

is your box filled with polyfill?
also check to see if all terminals on back of the speakers r connected, if they have 4 terminals per speaker
No, I believe the box is hollow and empty.....
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OEM Rear Wing
OEM Fogs
OEM Stainless Exhaust Tips
OEM Sunroof Visor
OEM 16" Alloys
20% Chocolate/Bronze Tint
Rockford Fosgate Punch 800.2 Amp
15" Rockford Fosgate Punch XLC Subs (2)
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