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Old July 27th, 2009, 10:57 AM   #1
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Question Need advice on tires to help stop wheel jerk

Hey all,

I really need some help. Here is my current setup:
02 AV6
Tein H Tech springs F -1.22 R -1.06
Tokico Blue's up front and stock shocks in rear.
Limited 903 Rims 18 x 7.5 (+40 i think?)
225/40/18 zr rated

Here's the deal... ever since I got the rims put on and lowered the car, I've had problems with the wheels grabbing the ruts in the road and jerking the steering wheel. If i'm not paying attention i could easily hit something. Driving on the interstate is especially horrible lol. So i guess the first question is whats causing that, and then what can i do to stop it?

I read on another post where someone had just changed his tire size (didn't say to what) and it solved his problem. I'm needing new tires so I figured now would be a good time to change up to a different size if i needed to. Here are some pics of my fitment if it helps anyone... would a taller tire fix the problem maybe?





and btw I hate that fender gap up front :P

Last edited by Arlorn87; August 6th, 2009 at 08:14 AM..
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Old July 27th, 2009, 04:37 PM   #2
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The lower profile tires are causing it. I'd say that that's your biggest factor. Your stock wheels were 6" wide...whereas your new ones are 7" wide...that also affects it. Also, with less of an impact, newer tires grip better and will also cause a bit of difference.

Just get used to paying attention and having a good grip on the steering wheel. There's no way to really avoid it...but on the up side, your handling has probably improved greatly.
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Old July 28th, 2009, 06:02 AM   #3
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So its safe to assume that most of the people on this forum suffer the same problem then?

and 225/40 isn't the cause...?
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Old July 28th, 2009, 07:08 AM   #4
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will 235/45-18 be even worse?.....

....or will 18 235's even fit on the 6G 4door? I ask since I am looking at these factory wheels for reasonable price that come off an 8G coupe. I need to find out if these wheels arre7.5 or 8. The 7.5 have the same the BS & OF. The 18-8, push the wheel out more, I assume like your picture. I am running stock height.

Any words of wisdom whether I should attempt these 235/45-18's, or not?

thnx,
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Old July 28th, 2009, 07:25 AM   #5
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I don't know enough about tire sizes to be able to help you with that LDC... I know i'm running 7.5 width all around with 225/40's and I scrub my fenders : / ... I don't hit my steering/suspension components with wheel turn though...
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Old July 28th, 2009, 12:31 PM   #6
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You should be fine with 18s and 235 tires. My wheels are 17x8 with 235 in back...I used to have 235 up front too. You just won't be able to lower it as much. If anything just get a thinner tire. Or if you want to lower it a lot...just get a narrower tire and stretch it.

For example:
In the back I have about -2.25* camber...so that keeps it from rubbing. The tires are 235/45/17. I also folded the lip in so prevent it from rubbing against the tire.

In the front I have 215/45/17 tires now...and there's hardly a rubbing issue. Only whenever I hit big bumps/dips. The stretch isn't that bad either...not much rim exposure so it's not very prone to getting hit by rocks and stuff.
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Old July 28th, 2009, 12:34 PM   #7
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It's called bump steer and there's not a whole lot you can do about it. When you've lowered your car and added lower profile tires it'll just happen. Different tire sizes will help but you're just going to have to drive more carefully to be honest lol.



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Old July 28th, 2009, 12:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlorn87 View Post
I don't know enough about tire sizes to be able to help you with that LDC... I know i'm running 7.5 width all around with 225/40's and I scrub my fenders : / ... I don't hit my steering/suspension components with wheel turn though...
You're rubbing because you have a low offset on your wheels. That means that your wheels stick out more. So instead of tucking up inside the fenders when you hit a bump, they hit the the fenders or fender liners. You can roll the fenders or get lower profile tires. Or set your camber more negative so that the wheels slant in at the top and tuck up underneath...but this isn't good for your tire wear or traction.
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Old July 31st, 2009, 02:37 PM   #9
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an alignment maybe?
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Old August 2nd, 2009, 10:03 AM   #10
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it's all about the low pro tires. Not much you can do cept change them out to something a bit higher..
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Old August 2nd, 2009, 12:50 PM   #11
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would I run into any problems going up to a 225/45?

dlloyd, It's def not an alignment problem. its been happening since I put all the stuff on.
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Old August 4th, 2009, 09:41 AM   #12
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i got 18 x 8 40 series tires and I got the same problem but like everyone says unless you get a skinner rim 7 or 6.5 with some 50 series tires you'll still have the same problem
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Old August 5th, 2009, 12:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlorn87 View Post
would I run into any problems going up to a 225/45?

dlloyd, It's def not an alignment problem. its been happening since I put all the stuff on.
Going from a 225/40 to a 225/45 isn't going to help your bump steer problem at all. That's not enough sidewall still. You're only adding ~2cm to your overall diameter.
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Old August 5th, 2009, 01:30 PM   #14
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Technically, bump steer is due to the change in toe-in or toe-out as the wheel travels up and down, due to the suspension geometry. With only a 1 to 1 1/4 inch lowering of the car, the Honda front suspension geometry should still be fairly good, i.e. very little bump steer, especially with a double A arm suspension.

By decreasing wheel offset from 55 to 40 mm, the scrub radius is increased. This would give increased feedback from the tire forces. However, I'm running a 16" x 7" wheel with 38mm offset and have no steering kick-back issues. My rear tires bearly clear the fender wells. The fender lips are not rolled.

Arlon87, what are your suspension settings front and rear? Are you running significant toe-out or negative camber in the front or rear?


http://www.miata.net/garage/offset.htm

http://www.familycar.com/Alignment.htm

http://moodle.student.cnwl.ac.uk/moo...rubradius.html
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Old August 5th, 2009, 01:35 PM   #15
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What you describe sounds like tramlining.
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Old August 5th, 2009, 03:57 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post
Technically, bump steer is due to the change in toe-in or toe-out as the wheel travels up and down, due to the suspension geometry. With only a 1 to 1 1/4 inch lowering of the car, the Honda front suspension geometry should still be fairly good, i.e. very little bump steer, especially with a double A arm suspension.

By decreasing wheel offset from 55 to 40 mm, the scrub radius is increased. This would give increased feedback from the tire forces. However, I'm running a 16" x 7" wheel with 38mm offset and have no steering kick-back issues. My rear tires bearly clear the fender wells. The fender lips are not rolled.

Arlon87, what are your suspension settings front and rear? Are you running significant toe-out or negative camber in the front or rear?


http://www.miata.net/garage/offset.htm

http://www.familycar.com/Alignment.htm

http://moodle.student.cnwl.ac.uk/moo...rubradius.html
Maybe we're using the term "bump steer" incorrectly as a technical term, but we know what he's referring to. When you hit a little imperfection in the road, the steering wheel jerks to one side or the other.

What size tires are you running on your 16x7 wheels? That has a lot to do with it too. Having more sidewall on your tires will absorb these "bumps" better than lower profile tires.

I'm running 17x8 wheels and 225/45/17 tires up front. I've got a camber kit and my camber/toe are within factory spec even after being lowered more than 3". I still experience bump steer like crazy.
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Old August 5th, 2009, 07:04 PM   #17
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Yes, Greencoupe98, tramlining sounds like the right term.


VietNinjaJ30A1, with a 3" drop, you possibly may be experiencing bump steer. Suspensions are designed to minimize bump steer in their normal operating range. With a large drop, the height of the steering rack may need to be lowered to minimize bump steer. Testing for bump steer involves removing the springs, and measuring toe-in as the wheel is moved up and down around the new median ride height (steering wheel straight ahead). Has anyone run an analysis of the Accord suspension on one of the suspension programs? Also, one of the performance shops may know.

I'm running a 215/55/16 tire for the very reason you state. A 55 series tire has a significant sidewall to absorb bumps, yet is still of performance construction. Biggest problem is that performance brakes aren't really available till you get to 17 inch wheels. I'm aware that the Acura CL brakes, 11.8"/11.0" F/R rotors, for 16 inch wheels will fit.
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Old August 5th, 2009, 10:27 PM   #18
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Acura CL brakes won't do much for you. The rotors are marginally larger in diameter...but not enough to really give you a performance benefit worth the work of swapping them out. For that kind of upgrade, you should look into getting Legend calipers. They're 2 piston calipers as opposed to the 1 piston Accord/TL/CL calipers.
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Old August 5th, 2009, 10:44 PM   #19
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hmm i never had a problems with this when i ran my 19's and with 215/35 hella thin tires of course i felt every lil bump, but i did try to avoid every hole, bump, rock, etc...
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Old August 6th, 2009, 08:06 AM   #20
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Quote:
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Arlon87, what are your suspension settings front and rear? Are you running significant toe-out or negative camber in the front or rear?
I haven't made any changes to camber on purpose. I haven't had it measured either so I can't say for certain what my settings are. I have not installed a camber kit to correct any changes caused by the lowering springs. All I can tell you is I have those tein springs matched with tokico blues up front and stock shocks in rear. :/ (I'm a noob when it comes to technicalities of cars lol)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VietNinjaJ30A1 View Post
Maybe we're using the term "bump steer" incorrectly as a technical term, but we know what he's referring to. When you hit a little imperfection in the road, the steering wheel jerks to one side or the other.
yea you got it right, like if you try to change lanes and the lanes aren't exactly even. When one of the wheels hits that little lip, the wheel gets turned on it own. I have heard this called tramlining before as well.
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Old August 6th, 2009, 10:37 AM   #21
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Arlorn87, with only a 1 1/4" drop you should not need a camber kit. Recommend checking the wheel toe alignment, as toe-out or excessive toe-in can make the car feel darty. Though tramlining is probably your main problem.
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Old August 6th, 2009, 04:43 PM   #22
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I thought tram lining was mainly due to the actual road you're driving on. The only time my car does that is when they tear up the pavement and you can actually see groves in the road...like someone cut lines in it.
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Old August 6th, 2009, 06:40 PM   #23
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get the car aligned again.. it will help more than you think, you have changed the geometry of the suspension by lowering. also the guys are right about the tires. once you go low profile, it will start to feel the road.
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Old August 7th, 2009, 08:41 AM   #24
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here is some good reading for those interested in this thread it talks about what bump steer is and how to solve it (to some extent)

h&r spring article
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Old August 7th, 2009, 02:56 PM   #25
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I'll go get the alignment checked out soon. I'm going to start with new tires tomorrow (woot!)and I'll post up what I find out about my alignment and toe-in and toe-out.
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