Best NA motor - Honda Accord Forum : V6 Performance Accord Forums
Ribbon Banner

Go Back   Honda Accord Forum : V6 Performance Accord Forums > CAR SPECIFIC DISCUSSION > 7TH GENERATION HONDA ACCORD (2003-2007) > 7G HONDA ACCORD PERFORMANCE DISCUSSION
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read Insurance
V6Performance.net is the premier Honda Accord Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old March 1st, 2009, 10:20 PM   #1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 24
Best NA motor

What J-series motor would be the best for an NA build with minimal torque. I was thinking the J30a1 because it is the only motor you can put a header on.

Plans i would have for a motor build would be:
Slight bore + sleeve
Balanced, lightened, and destroked crank
High comp custom pistons + custom rods
Custom Race header
Complete valvetrain
PnP head
Custom Intake
Custom 3" exhaust (already have)
Best possible tuning program idk yet

This would be a race motor put in a 00 civic, so i dont need a big 3.5 litr with a lot of torque.

Im not sure if there is a company that makes aftermarket cams with a high lift but i havent found one yet.

Im not too worried about what motor has a good base hp, i just want to know which motor has the best potential NA without too much torque.

I was also looking at the J32a2 and doing basically the same thing except the sleeve/bore and header

Balanced, lightened, and destroked crank
High comp custom pistons + custom rods
Complete valvetrain
PnP head
Custom Intake
Custom exhaust all the way up to the block/exhaust mani
Best possible tuning program idk yet


With either motor, j30a1 or j32a2, i would be looking to end up with something close to a 3.0 litr whether it be by boring/sleeving or destroking and what not. Im just not sure which motor would have more potential.

Also ive read that its hard to get a 6pd to bold up to the J30a1 so idk.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
ampmstation247 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old March 1st, 2009, 11:06 PM   #2
J35 Honda Saber
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 45
Send a message via AIM to adamlee05
Quote:
Originally Posted by ampmstation247 View Post
I was thinking the J30a1 because it is the only motor you can put a header on.
Since when? J30A1, J32A1, J32A2, J35A3 all have standard heads without cast-in exhaust manifolds that I know of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ampmstation247 View Post
]Also ive read that its hard to get a 6pd to bold up to the J30a1 so idk.
^--No.

Also, you do realize HP is a direct mathematical result of torque, right?

You should do a little more research first. A build like that is going to cost you something insane. Check out some of NVA-AV6's builds, they aren't cheap. Also there is absolutely no need to sleeve an NA build, even using Nitrous. Some of us on the TL forums have ran 150 shot on stock blocks without consequence (though I dont recommend nitrous). I'm sure if you check around here there are others doing the same.

best tuning program will be E-Manage Ultimate, though more than you would need for an NA build of this type.
adamlee05 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 1st, 2009, 11:25 PM   #3
Formerly VTEC-v6!
 
N54TT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Atlanta Georgia
Posts: 5,251
Quote:
Originally Posted by ampmstation247 View Post
What J-series motor would be the best for an NA build with minimal torque.

This would be a race motor put in a 00 civic, so i dont need a big 3.5 litr with a lot of torque.
Minimal Torque = Minimal HP.

Not being a "hater", but if you're going to put your blood, sweat, tears and $$ into a race car, you ought to know what you're doing first.

I obviously understand the principles of a high-strung rev-monster with shorter gears for racing, but you aren't going to get that with a J-Series motor. Their SOHC valvetrain is going to keep the rev ceiling relatively low.

There are a few different philosophies when it comes to building power plants for racing, and the high-rev top-end ones don't fit the bill with a motor that won't rev past ~7K RPM.

...just my 0.02lb-ft
__________________
Garage:
  • 2010 BMW 135i (500hp, JB4 w/ E85)
  • 2017 Chevy Tahoe LT
Gone but not forgotten:
  • 2013 Honda Accord 4dr EX-L
  • 2002 Honda Accord 4dr EX-V6
  • 1999 Honda Accord 4dr LX
N54TT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old March 1st, 2009, 11:26 PM   #4
KT!
 
icantsleeps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wichita Falls / Dallas
Posts: 1,314
Send a message via AIM to icantsleeps
^ honda tuning did an article on this! someone dropped a J35 engine into an EG and whoaaa it makes 268 hp or something around there
icantsleeps is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 1st, 2009, 11:55 PM   #5
I <3 My J30A4
 
qnzthg89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Queens
Posts: 2,925
^^^^^^^ now that must be fast lol
qnzthg89 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 12:42 AM   #6
Registered User
 
Sonnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,828
^^ 264whp/231wtq in a 2200lb car...yea, pretty fast lol. It's basically a TL Type S -1300lbs. Probably a high 12 second car with traction.

J32a2 would be a good bet. Might as well buy the whole motor/6spd tranny together rather than piecing it together. Might be cheaper that way. 250+ whp in a Civic should be rapage.
Sonnick is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 06:57 AM   #7
Registered User
 
3.56thgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,416
just curious but why no torque?
3.56thgen is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 07:10 AM   #8
Wheelgap = sleeper mod
 
mbr311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Indy
Posts: 3,038
If you want low torque, "high" hp, high reving, short gearing, then why not look at the K-series engines?
mbr311 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 08:26 AM   #9
Formerly VTEC-v6!
 
N54TT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Atlanta Georgia
Posts: 5,251
What kind of "race" car will this be? Drag? AutoX? Road Racing?

A J-Series is going to ruin your weight distribution...
N54TT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 08:32 AM   #10
Registered User
 
3.56thgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,416
if you really want low torque buy a s2k those are nice cars
3.56thgen is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 08:43 AM   #11
Registered User
 
chiefy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,602
Send a message via AIM to chiefy
j32 would be a better bet. and of course the 6spd bolts up to the j30
__________________
spool or be schooled!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
chiefy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 09:02 AM   #12
I'm a whiner
 
3.0lvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: MIAMI
Posts: 119
I'd say a K series would be a better choice for a NA build. K's have way more aftermarket support than a J does. I love the J but it seems a bit heavy to put into a civic
3.0lvr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 09:41 AM   #13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 24
i already have a k series engine in my EM1. A k24a2, full bolt ons and tune, made 230whp and 190 ft lbs. I was going to do an NA build on that in hopes of reaching 300-320 whp on pump gas. Achievable, but i would of end up spending around 9k on the build, and thats with only a 2.4Litr.
2000 for custom pistons/rods
1300 for cams
2000 for intake mani
1500 pnp head
1500 bore/sleeve and crankwork
300 valvetrain


I figured that if i put that 9k into a 3.0 litr i should be able to reach anywhere from 350whp-375 with somewhere around 260 ft/lbs NA on 92octane.

By destroking and getting a good aftermarket valvetrain, couldnt you increase the rpm and broaden the power curve a little bit?
ampmstation247 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 10:03 AM   #14
Formerly VTEC-v6!
 
N54TT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Atlanta Georgia
Posts: 5,251
Destroking is going to reduce your torque even more and actually narrow your power curve. The rev ceiling is limited by the SOHC valvetrain, even with custom valvetrain gear, you're pushing the physical limits at 8k RPM.

A combo of 370hp/260lb-ft puts your peak torque at ~7750RPM. You're going to need more displacement than 3.0L to hit that on these motors, and with that displacement comes more torque.

Side note: Torque is NOT bad. Torque is good, torque is your friend.

Torque is the difference when you blow someones doors off exiting a corner because they needed to grab a downshift to get into their powerband when you didn't
N54TT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 10:23 AM   #15
"Certified Hybrid Killer"
 
SteVTEC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Commietown, MD
Posts: 5,056
De-stroking is only done to 4-cylinders because the larger ones like the K24 already have super long "hail-mary" strokes which result in unacceptably high piston speeds when you push RPM. De-stroking tames the piston speeds a bit and lets you push the RPM more. And the DOHC valvetrain allows that.

On the V6 engines you have the opposite problem. Piston speed is not the issue - the mass of a heavier and cheaper SOHC valvetrain is. You can spin direct acting bucket tappets in a DOHC head to far higher RPMs than the much heavier and higher inertia rocker arm setups in a SOHC. Of course you can modify those too, but it will be ALL CUSTOM because nobody does aftermarket J-series parts. How much money you got?
SteVTEC is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 10:28 AM   #16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTEC-v6! View Post
What kind of "race" car will this be? Drag? AutoX? Road Racing?

A J-Series is going to ruin your weight distribution...
^^^
This is the heart of the matter.

If you are drag racing drop the J series, get them most power you can and figure out traction second.

If you are are auto-x'ing or road racing you don't want to add the additional weight of the V6 to the nose of the car.

Like VTEC-V6 said torque is a good thing.
I think the best of both worlds would be to get the Brian Crower kit and stroke the K24 up to a 2.6L. You get the better valvetrain (DOHC i-vtec), all the aftermarket, less weight, and more power, especially torque.

edit: Just to clarify I mean more power than the K24A2, not more than a J35. Oh no.

You will loose a little rev ability, but you also won't need to rev that high. K26 is the engine of my dreams. Well K26 turbo actually. BC makes the kits for any compression and with lgithweight NA rods or heavy duty turbo rods. Look into it.
District.99_hK is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 11:42 AM   #17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NOVA
Posts: 5,513
Torque wins, Horsepower sells.

I'd be happier with a K-swapped car running 12 seconds than a J-Swapped car running 12 seconds. You will end up spending much more.
JCharged is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 12:05 PM   #18
Registered User
 
3.56thgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,416
^^^torque=fun
3.56thgen is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 12:07 PM   #19
Bobby Lane Racing
 
nighthawk04v6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 5,679
best motor to utilize N/A would be a K-series out of a JDM integra Type R or a RSX-S. it makes more than enough torque to pull you out of a turn as long as you have LSD tranny and the motor is in a civic or an integra.
nighthawk04v6 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 12:09 PM   #20
✔ Verified Member
 
otsb708's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 5,836
Send a message via Yahoo to otsb708 Send a message via Skype™ to otsb708
Torque=Gettin the ladies...Oh Yeah!
otsb708 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 12:43 PM   #21
Registered User
 
thisaznboi88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 8,733
tq is good. you feel tq way before you feel HP. HP is just top end power tq is more like low end power. Don't get punked by a nissan.
thisaznboi88 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 01:05 PM   #22
Registered User
 
3.56thgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,416
I like the k26 idea from District.99_hK cause honda has the top end of the motor now just add a little torque and you have something that honda didn't do
3.56thgen is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 02:21 PM   #23
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 24
The motor is for drag racing and some street use.

thats what i planned on doing with my k-series motor was to bore it and get a stroker crank on it. Full IPS parts and what not. I just figured that if i were to start with a motor that was a half litr bigger, i could make more hp and torque.

The only reason i didnt want too much torque was because of street use but i could change gearing for that.

Do you guys think it would be possible to reach 350 whp with a j-series motor NA even with the limited aftermarket support??
ampmstation247 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 02:32 PM   #24
Registered User
 
3.56thgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,416
^^^I wouldn't see why not spoolinspoons has 303whp but ask NVA-AV6 he is a doctor for the J-series
3.56thgen is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 02:54 PM   #25
hmmm what next?
 
shonda1989's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: MINNESOTA
Posts: 2,785
dude you crazy if i wanted to make a N/A power house with a j30a1. i would make a 3.7 how nva did and make the compression as high as possible without knocking the engine. also having it rev so high is like was said in previos threads like this the j series engines curve dies after 6000 RPM and the only way to change that is to one of 2 ways making a new head with different valves or by changing the intake manifold so much that you would be putting 5K into that alone for testing. then you still have the problem that is simply the engine will not allow it to rev that much! good luck but you are not going anywhere on a J series N/A.
shonda1989 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 03:43 PM   #26
Registered User
 
Sonnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,828
VQ35 anyone?? Lol.

You can definitely make 300+ on the J series, but it'd most likely have to be the J35/36/37. 300whp/260wtq is all you would need in a Civic shell anyway.
Sonnick is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 07:31 PM   #27
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: G-Burg MD
Posts: 525
Send a message via AIM to rjp6262
K-Series FTW!!! and since it's for drag racing it'll work better as well since it's less weight than a J series engine. seriously get a k20a2 head on a k24 block and build that for some mad power. that set up alone with k-pro tuning i think hits 230 whp. someone correct me if im wrong!
rjp6262 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 07:47 PM   #28
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Morganville, NJ
Posts: 77
I have yet to see a Honda with bucket tappets, all have rocker arms. Even the 9000 rpm S2000 has rocker arms on shafts.

Toyotas have direct acting cam on shim over bucket tappets, Subaru has buckets with shim under.
RedThunder is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 08:36 PM   #29
Formerly VTEC-v6!
 
N54TT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Atlanta Georgia
Posts: 5,251
^
N54TT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 2nd, 2009, 08:59 PM   #30
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjp6262 View Post
K-Series FTW!!! and since it's for drag racing it'll work better as well since it's less weight than a J series engine. seriously get a k20a2 head on a k24 block and build that for some mad power. that set up alone with k-pro tuning i think hits 230 whp. someone correct me if im wrong!

As i posted earlier, i already have a k24a2 making 230whp and 190tq.
ampmstation247 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Honda Accord Forum : V6 Performance Accord Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Chapter
Choose your AV6 Chapter Location
Ride
What do you drive?
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On