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Old January 22nd, 2010, 06:15 AM   #1
M90SC Boosting 13PSI
 
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Give me feedback guys

Ok here is the deal, as some of you know there is a turbo kit for the 3rd/4th gen TL that is being developed and close to release. As part fo this Hondata (At least has discussed) developing flash pro for the 07+ TL-S since it is now a Denso re-flashable ECU (Till now the V6 has been run by a PITA Motorola ECU) being used for these. Now I have done some inital research and it looks very possible to graft this ECU into our 7th gens (sorry this will not work for 2nd gen CL/TL or 6th gen AV6). We would be looking at a $250 conversion harness to adapt the ECU and of course the ECU (Car-Part shows a couple in the $300-$350 range) itself and then FlashPro ($700). So now the question is providing the word from Hondata is true would you be willing to pay $1300 to have a Hondata tuning solution? The more comitment for this we can get the better the chance of this really happening.

Props to Rodney at J and R for making contact with Hondata and getting this at least seriously thought about by Hondata......
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 06:41 AM   #2
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this is what you guys all need. I know 1300 seems a bit much to shell out.. but K-Pro goes for much more expensive in the K-series realm and I've had many success stories with that.. The more people that show interest, the more Hondata will be interested in working with us. There are a handful of Hondata tuned J-series out there, but this option opens up the gateway to a whole new market of J-series tuning.. Time to junk all the piggy backs you guys..
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 06:59 AM   #3
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I wouldn't say junk, but sell to the older vehicles yes.
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 07:15 AM   #4
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^ my saver !!! 1300 is not bad, for a real tune set up i say well worth it
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 08:09 AM   #5
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i would pay that in a heart beat. this was the only thing from realy keeping me from boosting my car. if it works than ill give my left nut
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 08:35 AM   #6
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hell yea i would pay that wow bout time they take us seriously
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 08:40 AM   #7
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im in ill gladly pay that but there are only a few 6 speed ecu's out there im sure so would the automatic ecu's be able to be used?
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 08:42 AM   #8
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To me personally, no. I'd rather see more development on the FI/C

The AEM FI/C option isn't perfect, but its fairly affordable.
$250 harness + ~$400 FI/C is a lot easier to swing.

The harness cost you can control, and the Hondata price, but as soon as this is released, those TL-S ECM's are going to start disappearing and driving prices up. It looks like Acura wants ~$430 (if I found the right part) so I'd almost use that as the comparison price.

$250 + $430 + $700= $1380

I can see the advantage for the really serious builds, like Alex's, but for something I can see myself doing, no.

Just my $0.02
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 08:43 AM   #9
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Finally Hondata .. 1300 not too bad considering its been the dream
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 08:44 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorePower4me View Post
To me personally, no. I'd rather see more development on the FI/C

The AEM FI/C option isn't perfect, but its fairly affordable.
$250 harness + ~$400 FI/C is a lot easier to swing.

The harness cost you can control, and the Hondata price, but as soon as this is released, those TL-S ECM's are going to start disappearing and driving prices up. It looks like Acura wants ~$430 (if I found the right part) so I'd almost use that as the comparison price.

$250 + $430 + $700= $1380

I can see the advantage for the really serious builds, like Alex's, but for something I can see myself doing, no.

Just my $0.02
I prefer a standalone becuz i have E85 stations all around me and 110 leaded race gas available at a nearby gas station so being able to fully tune for these fuels would be SIK!!
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 09:16 AM   #11
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humm hey paul seems like another thing i have to save for on top of the j36 + turbo huh!! i hope this can be more effective than f/ic. i mean paul do u think this standalone will be able to adjust timing? no all we need is interest. im game!!!
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 09:19 AM   #12
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i would def be interested but i would have to see some numbers first.
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 09:25 AM   #13
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Hey Paul since they are doing this for the 3rd Gen TLS ECU how close is that to the ecu in my 8th gen? I'd being willing to spend the dough since the car runs so rich.
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 09:28 AM   #14
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^^ im not an expert but since the 6th gen av6 won't work, most likely the 8th gen won't either bud, since ur 8th gen accords are even more complex than the 7th gens.
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 09:41 AM   #15
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I'm down for this
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 09:43 AM   #16
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^^ i knew it hey i would love to see the numbers ur pulling with ur j33 and the reflash man!!
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 09:49 AM   #17
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^^ im not an expert but since the 6th gen av6 won't work, most likely the 8th gen won't either bud, since ur 8th gen accords are even more complex than the 7th gens.
I have the 6mt 8th gen and Paul noticed last time I was at his house that the ecu being ran on my car was the same basic ecu that the civic si runs. Its also the same basic ecu the 3rd gen TL Type S runs since its essentially the same engine only with a lower compression ratio. But I guess we'll find out.

Also the 6th gen used motorola ecus
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 09:51 AM   #18
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^^ cool we will find out man. this flash will be amazing for j-series engine all around!!! i say LETS DO IT!!!
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 09:55 AM   #19
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is this going to be avaible for the auto v6 also? if so...yes, this would be something that i would want.
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 09:55 AM   #20
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Yea I'm down for sure. Put my tax refund to good use LOL
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 10:14 AM   #21
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looks like i dont have a choice? or do i? lol
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 10:21 AM   #22
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hella good idea.
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 10:22 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubanob247 View Post
I prefer a standalone becuz i have E85 stations all around me and 110 leaded race gas available at a nearby gas station so being able to fully tune for these fuels would be SIK!!
i wouldn't put 110 leaded in your tank. you're asking for trouble there. but this is definitely a tuning option for you kind of work..

Quote:
Originally Posted by MorePower4me View Post
To me personally, no. I'd rather see more development on the FI/C

The AEM FI/C option isn't perfect, but its fairly affordable.
$250 harness + ~$400 FI/C is a lot easier to swing.

The harness cost you can control, and the Hondata price, but as soon as this is released, those TL-S ECM's are going to start disappearing and driving prices up. It looks like Acura wants ~$430 (if I found the right part) so I'd almost use that as the comparison price.

$250 + $430 + $700= $1380

I can see the advantage for the really serious builds, like Alex's, but for something I can see myself doing, no.

Just my $0.02
your 2 cents is not going to count this time. the AEM FIC is a piggy back still in the end. It will never beable to do what a full standalone can do. Your tuning capabilities are very limited even if you argue otherwise.... The AEM FIC will never beable to pull off what this can do.

Most new honda ECU's are the same as the 07-08 TL-S ECU so limitations and price hikes won't happen. You will eventually see them all using the same ECU as that is the way honda is leaning towards.

We're tuning a AP2 S2000 with a ported DBW throttle body. we got it ported out to 68mm to match the intake manifold and has all the bolt ons. It should be on the dyno very soon and I'll have a video posted up.

This new application I.E FlashPro being offered by Hondata is just like an OpenECU tune that we've been doing for all the Subarus, EVO's, G35's, Z, etc etc all the newer cars...

Can't wait to see this in the works...
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 10:37 AM   #24
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Hey Paul since they are doing this for the 3rd Gen TLS ECU how close is that to the ecu in my 8th gen? I'd being willing to spend the dough since the car runs so rich.
Depends, I will be talking more with Hondata in early Feb to get a feature list established, one that I will be pushing for is VCM kill, if this can be done then we should be golden even for the 8th gen.
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 10:38 AM   #25
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Guys this is still some time out if it is going to happen at all, so I will not be stopping FIC development for that reason as well as the cost.
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 10:39 AM   #26
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is this going to be avaible for the auto v6 also? if so...yes, this would be something that i would want.
Not known yet, but I am hopeful.
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 10:53 AM   #27
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your 2 cents is not going to count this time.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize you also post as Paul. My mistake.

I thought the intent was to gauge interest in Hondata's possible new offerings. I said my piece.

Its one thing to post and say 'oh yeah, thats awesome' etc, and another to come up with the $1400 it takes to make it work, plus Dyno costs, plus tuning costs.

Most people aren't realistically intending to tune this on their own, so they should probably budget ~$2k to make this all work. Plus install if applicable.

If you look at the KPro results on the RSX (yes, I realize its different) you have on average, about a 15-20whp gain. Additionally most of its at pretty high RPM (which we can't get to), they have a vastly superior head/cam/VTEC system to take advantage of (which we don't have), and they usually have a header (which we can't get) to throw the factory tune more out of 'whack'.

To think you can pop this into your car and gain more than 15whp seems foolishly optimistic at best.

So let's ask the initial question another way. Who's willing to pay $2,000 for about 15hp.
I'm not.

Or hell, ask Richie about his J-Pipe sales. They realistically add the same amount of hp, but are SUBSTANTIALLY cheaper, and much, much easier to install/make work. He's sold a decent amount, but after the initial runs they don't appear to be jumping off the shelf anymore. Yet there are MANY members on this forum that haven't added them yet.

So if these people aren't willing to pay ~$320 for ~15hp, do you think they'll jump at paying $2,000 for it?

Now look at the small # of people who are so heavily modified they would actually benefit by this product (and the increased tunability vs the FI/C) AND ones that have the available funds to do it.

I'd bet from this board you can count them on one hand.

So if you wanted to see another 'Hondata is teh secks' post like on the RSX boards, sorry to disappoint. ~$130/hp is far too much in this members eyes.

Paul asked for honest feedback, that is what he got.

**also, don't be a jackass just because someone disagrees with your opinion. This is a FORUM.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/FORUM
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 11:20 AM   #28
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Paul, I would probably go for this. I just dont know who would tune it. I guess it would be much more involved that the tuning i was doing the other day?
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 11:23 AM   #29
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I hope this doesn't come back to bite me in the butt because I respect everyone on here very much, but morepower4me, you have very valid points, I'm not argueing that, but I don't think nighthawk04v6 meant it in the deragatory sense that you might be taking it. None the less, I think its great to have something else at you guy's disposal. This has been an ongoing topic since I joined.
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 11:23 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorePower4me View Post
I'm sorry, I didn't realize you also post as Paul. My mistake.
I'm not posting as Paul, I've also been in the loops with my tuner and hondata... and when my car is done it will be one of the test modules. I have an 07 TL-S ECU sitting around for two years now... I just haven't had the time to work on my car as customers come first and personal cars come last. However I've made it a commitment this year to be the year, and have purchased another DD to start the tear down process of my car. Thanks for rollings your eyes..


Quote:
Originally Posted by MorePower4me View Post
I thought the intent was to gauge interest in Hondata's possible new offerings. I said my piece.

Its one thing to post and say 'oh yeah, thats awesome' etc, and another to come up with the $1400 it takes to make it work, plus Dyno costs, plus tuning costs.

Most people aren't realistically intending to tune this on their own, so they should probably budget ~$2k to make this all work. Plus install if applicable.

If you look at the KPro results on the RSX (yes, I realize its different) you have on average, about a 15-20whp gain. Additionally most of its at pretty high RPM (which we can't get to), they have a vastly superior head/cam/VTEC system to take advantage of (which we don't have), and they usually have a header (which we can't get) to throw the factory tune more out of 'whack'.

To think you can pop this into your car and gain more than 15whp seems foolishly optimistic at best.

So let's ask the initial question another way. Who's willing to pay $2,000 for about 15hp.
I'm not.

Or hell, ask Richie about his J-Pipe sales. They realistically add the same amount of hp, but are SUBSTANTIALLY cheaper, and much, much easier to install/make work. He's sold a decent amount, but after the initial runs they don't appear to be jumping off the shelf anymore. Yet there are MANY members on this forum that haven't added them yet.

So if these people aren't willing to pay ~$320 for ~15hp, do you think they'll jump at paying $2,000 for it?
People buy engine management products to tune their car, not to yield horse power. If you are buying management products to yield horse power, you are better off buying a Chip on Ebay. Engine Management products are designed so that you can adjust parameters for the vehicle to function to its fullest potential. A purchase of engine management, whether its 300 for a piggy back, or 1500 for a full standalone is worth it. The piggy back system will still always have some control from the stock ECU which is why it's far cheaper and least superior than a full standalone. A full standalone comes at a price because it is what it's called. a full standalone component that controls whatever you want it to control. The benefits of a full standalone, or piggy back is that everytime you modify your car, you can adjust accordingly and tune accordingly. It's a life time product, not a 15 HP product or a 20HP product as you say.. If you are buying engine management to gain horse power and not buying it to make your modified car safe and peak potential than you are playing in the wrong court. However this doesn't mean you would be dumb to purchase this product as your First mod. A tuned vehicle is much better than a stock vehicle IMO, no matter how much one argues. Unlike a carburator engine, we need electronic devices to yield potential out of what we have, whether stock, bolt ons, turbo or SC... you are yielding or unleashing the beast of what you have.


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Now look at the small # of people who are so heavily modified they would actually benefit by this product (and the increased tunability vs the FI/C) AND ones that have the available funds to do it.

I'd bet from this board you can count them on one hand.

So if you wanted to see another 'Hondata is teh secks' post like on the RSX boards, sorry to disappoint. ~$130/hp is far too much in this members eyes.

Paul asked for honest feedback, that is what he got.

**also, don't be a jackass just because someone disagrees with your opinion. This is a FORUM.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/FORUM
Sorry man if you think my last post was me being a jackass to you. If you read it again, you will see no where did I say anything bad about what you said. If you are trying to yield horse power by engine management alone, than you are again playing on the wrong field.
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