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Old March 28th, 2012, 11:47 AM   #1
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J37a4 Rocker Swap with J30a4 (VTEC intake & Exhaust)

With the help of Sonnick I just cross referenced the cylinder head part numbers and they are the same for the 03-07 Accord V6, & 04-08 TL(S)'s. See links below. Most of the parts have the same part numbers wooww.. I am thinking of all the reasons why it wont work such as the need for additional relief cuts on the pistons on the exhaust side...but considering the J30a4 engines are only 400-500 buks right now its worth a shot!


2010 J37A4 TL part numbers

Acura Parts @ AcuraOEMparts.com - Genuine Acura OEM Parts from Delray Acura

2007 J30A4(5) Accord part numbers

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Possible Cylinder head Engine parts:

J37A2 09 + RL
J37A4 09+ TL
J37A5 10 + ZDX


Still needs some things added but here is a preliminary list of Honda/Acura part numbers of required pieces. First ill list the part numbers from acura then look them up on the honda website and compare prices. I know Jiga gets a nice discount from his local dealer too! So lucky him!
Keep in mind the quantities are doubled for the Front and Rear Cylinder heads:

12432-r70-a01 Bridge Rocker Shaft $90.49 x2 = $180.98
12433-r72-a00 Holder Assy. Fr rocker shaft $133.52 x2 = $267.64
95701-08040-08 Bolt rocker holder $.80 x4 = $3.20
90427-pfd-000 Sealing washer $1.41 x2 = $2.82
95701-08012-08 Bolt $.68 x2 = $1.36
90004-pe2-005 Bolt $2.49 x2 = $4.98
14820-r70-a02 Lost Motion $11.42 x18 = $205.56
95801-08060-08 Bolt $.88 x20 = $17.60

IDK which camshafts to use becuz there are 2 part numbers for each cylinder head.

14100-RKG-010 CAMSHAFT, FR. $274.26
14100-RKG-A00 CAMSHAFT, FR. $274.26
14200-RKG-010 CAMSHAFT, RR. $274.26
14200-RKG-A00 CAMSHAFT, RR. $274.26

These are the valve cover numbers & I think a gasket set for both cylinder head covers would be a good idea
12030-R70-A00 GASKET SET, HEAD COVER $31.60
12050-R70-A00 GASKET SET, RR. HEAD COVER $31.60
12310-RK2-A00 COVER ASSY., FR. CYLINDER HEAD $120.62
12320-R70-A00 COVER, RR. CYLINDER HEAD $76.70

Rockers & shafts:
14620-R72-A02 ARM ASSY., IN. ROCKER $230.44 x6 = $1382.64
14624-RKG-010 ARM A ASSY., EX. ROCKER $88.84 x6 = $533.04
14627-RKG-010 ARM B ASSY., EX. ROCKER $88.84 x6 = $533.04
14631-R72-A01 SHAFT, IN. ROCKER $29.27 x2 = $58.54
14632-RKG-000 SHAFT, EX. ROCKER $29.12 x2 = $58.24
14744-R72-A01 SCREW, TAPPET ADJUSTING $2.59 x24 = $62.16
90206-PT0-004 NUT, TAPPET ADJUSTING $1.40 x24 = $33.60


Rocker swap GRAND TOTAL IN PARTS ALONE: $4154.44 !!!

New Complete CYLINDER Heads from HONDA: ~$2800.00

Looks like hoping for junkyard heads is the best option for now....

What i would also like from everyone and i am gonna contribute is all the info and parts numbers costs etc... that you can find and i will organize this thread into a kind of DIY type thing... To be honest right now its lookin like buying a brand new 3.7L cylinder head from the dealer for 1400 buks is the cheapest route. So multiply by (2) is 2800 buks. So we will use that as a baseline for this mod. If you guys can find me some cheap cylinder heads off of a 3.7L, they dont even have to be in usable condition becuz we just need from the camshafts and up. So any bent valves or combustion chamber damage is usable as well. Anyhow i will make an attempt at this mod and give feedback if the price is right.

I have found a used cylinder head in New Orleans for 550 buks. But only one. http://www.car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi

Notes: Both engines (J30 & J37) have same part numbers for:
Camshaft pulleys
Crankshaft pulley and CKP Sensor gear
Timing Belt
Cylinder heads
Intake & Exhaust valves
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Last edited by AccordingLO; March 30th, 2012 at 11:23 AM..
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Old March 28th, 2012, 11:58 AM   #2
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WHATTTTT Lmaooooo. Could this actually work? That'd be sick. Paul great research man! Only thing I saw is that the rockers are expensive!

I do have one question though. Would this be as beneficial/cost effective as going with the Bisi cams? Although we would probably need valvetrain if we went aftermarket on the cams.
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Old March 28th, 2012, 12:12 PM   #3
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WHATTTTT Lmaooooo. Could this actually work? That'd be sick. Paul great research man! Only thing I saw is that the rockers are expensive!

I do have one question though. Would this be as beneficial/cost effective as going with the Bisi cams? Although we would probably need valvetrain if we went aftermarket on the cams.
well i have crunched some numbers and itll be roughly $2000.00 buks when its all said and done if you buy new parts....So i do think it is possible but unless some 3.7L engines start circulating the junk yards its not really practical...YET!

Also there are four different part numbers for the camshafts...

You gotta understand something, its the combination of parts that matters not just one single part. I swear if the next thing you say is "how much horsepower it could make from a tune" im go nucking futs over here !!

But you do realize if this swap/mod checks out its gonna blow the doors wide open...This mod im sure is no joke and will add a substantial amount of power...I like to be optimistic
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Old March 28th, 2012, 12:54 PM   #4
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LOL @ the tune comment. Were you talking about a J30a4/5 cylinder head or the J37 head? I'm assuming J37...I have a J30 head from an auto AV6 sitting in my garage. I'm not sure what happened to it, but something blew. Just saying.

I have no doubts this would be a great mod as well. I'm trying to juggle whether $2K is a good investment, rather than doing Bisi cams/valvetrain for ~$1300 (but yes, you will need a tune ).

This setup sounds awesome though, having VTEC on both the I/E sides! The RL cams have more lift/duration as well hehe.
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Old March 28th, 2012, 03:26 PM   #5
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I have 2 J30A4 heads that need valves. If anyone wants them for a Frankenstein head project, I will unload them cheap.
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Old March 28th, 2012, 04:53 PM   #6
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ahhhh, Now you 7th gen guys are finally thinking outside the box.
J30/J37 frankensteiner

However, after buying the parts, install and maybe machine work to the pistons, wouldn't it be better to just swap in the 3.7?





knighthawk04V6 needs to chime in, he would have alot of insight to this.
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Old March 28th, 2012, 05:06 PM   #7
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Woop there it is
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Old March 28th, 2012, 06:38 PM   #8
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Wow. I'm keeping my eye on this. Nice work on the research.
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Old March 28th, 2012, 08:11 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by WHEEELMAN View Post
ahhhh, Now you 7th gen guys are finally thinking outside the box.
J30/J37 frankensteiner

However, after buying the parts, install and maybe machine work to the pistons, wouldn't it be better to just swap in the 3.7?





knighthawk04V6 needs to chime in, he would have alot of insight to this.
thats what I was thinking, for 2/3 grand more you might be able to swap in a whole 3.7L. But this will be interesting to see where it goes. Being able to upgrade head/valve train could prove to get some good power out of our engines.
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Old March 28th, 2012, 08:51 PM   #10
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thats what I was thinking, for 2/3 grand more you might be able to swap in a whole 3.7L. But this will be interesting to see where it goes. Being able to upgrade head/valve train could prove to get some good power out of our engines.
the thing about an engine swap is how are you going to be sure that the transmission will bolt up, also what about sensors etc...I am all for trying new things but this cam and rocker swap is purely swapping mechanical parts so the chances of success and a true bolt-on DIY possibility exists for the average mechanic that doesnt have an engine lift or the facilities to pull out a whole engine etc.. all you pretty much need is basic "know how" to loosen the timing belt/tensioner, strip the top half of the engine and rocker assemblies, remove camshafts etc...then re-install as necessary, shoot you dont even need to remove the exhaust or to many parts. This should keep the cost of installation fairly low. I mean i will prolly yank the engine becuz it is much easier to work on i refuse to work in tight spaces lol IDK im just brain storming it may be easier then i think.
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Old March 28th, 2012, 10:02 PM   #11
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I've been thinking about this for a long time. Been thinking about it Since Honda engineers figured out how to re-design the rocker assembly to match intake lobe on the exhaust side. For the longest time Honda was trying to figure out a way to do this with the already designed cylinder head and the spark plug tubes were getting in the way. They finally figured it out how to work around the tubes with the 3.7. What's funny is I still get people arguing about why Honda went with SOHC. This cam setup works exactly like a DOHC, with a single cam and lesser moving components.

you can swap in a whole 3.7 and make it work with your transmission. That would be the easy way to go, and no r&d involved really.

this head job will be more difficult and not the average basic DIY should even attempt it.

If you do plan to attempt it, get the proper tools to do so.
You will need a 3/8" torque wrench, and a 1/4" torque wrench to properly assemble a cylinder head. Not alot of people have that stuff.

Also to do this correctly, you would want to remove the entire cylinder head, and verify that the valve and the pistons can pair together. It's possible the valve relief on the pistons are cut differently on the 3.7 to accomodate the cam lobe on the exhaust side. That right now is the only thing stopping me. I have custom pistons which the valve reliefs are already cut deeper but are they deep enough? I'd have to see a 3.7L piston to compare and verify.

This definitely will help yield way more potential out of the J-series. What's scary though and the reason why I'm concerned about the valve relief is: Every single over rev'd J-series with bent valves I've repaired, all bent the exhaust valves.
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Old March 28th, 2012, 10:47 PM   #12
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So there is a chance!! How much potential do you think this could have Kiet?

What about swapping heads? I'm assuming they don't bolt up, but could this be something like the "G23? The H head on the F block? I'm sure the heads flow more as well.
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Old March 28th, 2012, 11:02 PM   #13
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they don't bolt up., no it wouldn't be a G.. it's still a J bro!
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Old March 28th, 2012, 11:08 PM   #14
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it would be a frank J?
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Old March 28th, 2012, 11:11 PM   #15
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V-tec!
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Old March 28th, 2012, 11:44 PM   #16
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it would definitely open up a new realm of power. stock J37's make over 300 from the factory, and a ton of torque. bolt ons and a tune would be rediculous for a 3.7l. Anyone here with a TL-SH AWD????
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Old March 29th, 2012, 12:09 AM   #17
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Old March 29th, 2012, 12:14 AM   #18
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I think when I get to this point with my Accord, I'd just have the Bisi cams and valvetrain put in, TBH.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 01:07 AM   #19
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Bisi cams are factory regrinds. Now Factory regrinds with a J37 head will give Bisi a better platform to work with
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Old March 29th, 2012, 01:25 AM   #20
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Are you saying they have a smaller combustion chamber? I haven't read all of every post in this thread, but my understanding is it's simply a way to get bigger cams on our engines, and the head swap is necessary due to the valvetrain being different from ours?

Also, WTF is a "regrind?" Hearing that term makes me want to punch babies. I have no idea how you can take a cam with X lift and Y duration, and end up with an object that has taller and wider lobes?
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Old March 29th, 2012, 06:59 AM   #21
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^ Lol. They grind the center circle of the cam smaller. I've heard some add material via welding, but I'm pretty sure they just grind the center smaller.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 08:18 AM   #22
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Are you saying they have a smaller combustion chamber? I haven't read all of every post in this thread, but my understanding is it's simply a way to get bigger cams on our engines, and the head swap is necessary due to the valvetrain being different from ours?

Also, WTF is a "regrind?" Hearing that term makes me want to punch babies. I have no idea how you can take a cam with X lift and Y duration, and end up with an object that has taller and wider lobes?
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^ Lol. They grind the center circle of the cam smaller. I've heard some add material via welding, but I'm pretty sure they just grind the center smaller.
I'd assume they add more metal and grind them down to the currect dimensions
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Old March 29th, 2012, 08:27 AM   #23
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the cylinder heads look completely different in the service manual. the head gasket is different. The rod bolts are the same. I would look to see if the complete head is a direct bolt on. Wish I had a 2010+ TL SH to play with.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 08:43 AM   #24
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^ Go get one! Lol. If the gaskets don't match then it can't be a direct bolt on, right? If it was, omg......
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Old March 29th, 2012, 08:47 AM   #25
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hmmm i will have to double check the part numbers for the cylinder heads and the head gaskets then...if everyone could do some research on that it would help also to get several opinions. I personally would try it if i had all the parts i dont mind risking my engine they are mad cheap around here. . I think over revving would be a different risk than higher lift though...In an over rev parts stretch and valves float so the risk of piston to valve contact is much greater than aggressive driving...I mean in theory you could just lock the VTEC in and spin the engine slowly to c if there is piston to valve contact...or clay the engine, but that would negate the affordability quite a bit if you had to have someone rebuild your engine...
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Old March 29th, 2012, 08:54 AM   #26
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IF you see these two sites the part numbers on the cylinder heads are the same. (see first post for more info). The three letters in the middle of the part number are irrelevant that is just the chassis code...The head gasket will of course be different becuz the cylinder bores are different..

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Old March 29th, 2012, 09:09 AM   #27
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compare the two pictures without looking at the rocker assembly, and tell me if you notice anything different with the cylinder heads. I see quite a few things different.


Whos going to be the guinea pig and buy a TLSH cylinder head... or who has a TL-SH 2010+ that they can donate
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Old March 29th, 2012, 09:12 AM   #28
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J30a4/5


J37
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Old March 29th, 2012, 09:45 AM   #29
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the 37 looks way diff the the 30
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Old March 29th, 2012, 09:50 AM   #30
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Good luck, keeping an eye on this one!
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