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Old February 7th, 2004, 04:15 PM   #1
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Talking V2

probably a repost but damn! pretty impressive numbers.. was gunna wait for a comptech airbox but i doubt it would be any better then aem

http://www.aempower.com/pdf/dyno/24-...20V2%20CHP.pdf

http://www.aempower.com/pdf/dyno/24-...20V2%20TRQ.pdf
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Old February 7th, 2004, 04:24 PM   #2
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Re: V2

Quote:
Originally posted by raymas8
probably a repost but damn! pretty impressive numbers.. was gunna wait for a comptech airbox but i doubt it would be any better then aem

http://www.aempower.com/pdf/dyno/24-...20V2%20CHP.pdf

http://www.aempower.com/pdf/dyno/24-...20V2%20TRQ.pdf
guess you didn't see my little write up on the AEM V2 dynos.

http://www.v6performance.net/forums/...660&forumid=65
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Old February 7th, 2004, 05:00 PM   #3
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They used my car for this test and my car is stock.
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Old February 7th, 2004, 05:02 PM   #4
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Re: Re: V2

Quote:
Originally posted by AV6Coupe2k3
They used my car for this test and my car is stock.
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Old February 7th, 2004, 05:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by AV6Coupe2k3
They used my car for this test and my car is stock.
would like to see a graph that isn't created on an excel spreadsheet!
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Old February 7th, 2004, 05:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by AV6Coupe2k3
They used my car for this test and my car is stock.
direct quote from AEM:

"During the development stage of the Civic Si kit, two different cars and three different dynamometers were used. One car is the AEM Civic Si, which is fitted with a cat-back exhaust, AEM fuel rail, and AEM fuel pressure regulator. On our car, the regulator was set to the factory-recommended psi setting and the injectors were factory units, rendering the rail and regulator essentially as stock replacement components. The other car was equipped with a cat-back system too, so generally speaking, the vehicles were at the same level of modification. Unlike all of our other products, we develop the V2 on vehicles with modified exhausts and try to test them with different combinations as we expect V2 customers will already have performance modifications on their vehicle. "

Last edited by modfreak1; February 7th, 2004 at 05:19 PM..
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Old February 7th, 2004, 05:18 PM   #7
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I am referring to the result of the V2 on the AV6 not on the Civic Si.
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Old February 7th, 2004, 05:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by AV6Coupe2k3
I am referring to the result of the V2 on the AV6 not on the Civic Si.
read the article!

"Unlike all of our other products, we develop the V2 on vehicles with modified exhausts and try to test them with different combinations as we expect V2 customers will already have performance modifications on their vehicle."
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Old February 7th, 2004, 05:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by AV6Coupe2k3
I am referring to the result of the V2 on the AV6 not on the Civic Si.
AEM's excel spread sheet dyno of the '03 civic si showed an 18whp increase, just like the accord. Temple of Vtec independent dyno testing revealed a loss of torque below 4,000rpms, and again of only 1-3whp above 4,000rpms.


Only in the most rediculous of circumstances will the addition of just a cold air intake give you +18whp on any car sold on the market today! you have to remeber that the engines have a computer, that can see and adapt to modifications.
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Old February 7th, 2004, 05:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by modfreak1 on February 7th, 2004 at 04:12 PM

would like to see a graph that isn't created on an excel spreadsheet!
Here:

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Old February 7th, 2004, 05:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by AV6Coupe2k3
Here:

I have 2 questions.

1. why did you guys pick 3rd gear to dyno on the 6mt?

2. was the stock cat-back exhaust sytem removed from your car?
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Old February 7th, 2004, 05:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by modfreak1 on February 7th, 2004 at 04:33 PM

I have 2 questions.

1. why did you guys pick 3rd gear to dyno on the 6mt?

2. was the stock cat-back exhaust sytem removed from your car?
There was already an explanation by Montoya (Guy from AEM who designed the V2 for the AV6) on a previous thread. The torque might be off in 3rd compared to 4th but the HP will be the same no matter what gear. The stock cat-back was not removed (or replace) when they run the dyno.
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Old February 7th, 2004, 05:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by AV6Coupe2k3
There was already an explanation by Montoya (Guy from AEM who designed the V2 for the AV6) on a previous thread. The torque might be off in 3rd compared to 4th but the HP will be the same no matter what gear. The stock cat-back was not removed (or replace) when they run the dyno.
I still say I don't believe the dyno numbers, because you should be able to achieve 217whp/195wtq in 4th, on a stock 6spd. All runs should have been done on premium fuel, and in 4th gear. with the 6spd, dynoing in different gears, will yeild different HP, and tq numbers. e.g 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th. What I believe we are seeing on that graph, is a 4th gear pull with the AEM(dyno number 2), and a 5th, or 6th gear pull with your stock air box(dyno number 1).

Last edited by modfreak1; February 7th, 2004 at 05:49 PM..
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Old February 7th, 2004, 05:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by AV6Coupe2k3
The torque might be off in 3rd compared to 4th but the HP will be the same no matter what gear.
but this still doesn't answer my question. Again, why were all pulls done in 3rd, and not 4th? since he is admiting that 3rd gear torque numbers are off, and both 3rd and 4th have the same HP numbers, then I don't understand why he didn't just leave the car in 4th for all 3 pulls?
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Old February 7th, 2004, 05:54 PM   #15
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You can believe whatever you want to believe. I am just sharing with you information that I have. As for me, I am satisfied with the V2 and I can feel the difference from stock.
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Old February 7th, 2004, 05:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by modfreak1 on February 7th, 2004 at 04:53 PM

but this still doesn't answer my question. Again, why were all pulls done in 3rd, and not 4th? since he is admiting that 3rd gear torque numbers are off, and both 3rd and 4th have the same HP numbers, then I don't understand why he didn't just leave the car in 4th for all 3 pulls?
Let me be corrected on the torque. It was Toby who made that statement. I went back to the previous post on this topic. Take note, the dyno was done by an outside company (R&D Dyno Service)...not AEM. Perhaps, you can call them on Monday and ask why it was done in 3rd gear.
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Old February 7th, 2004, 06:08 PM   #17
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Here is the original reply of Montoya.
Quote:
Hello Everyone,
I am the engineer that designed the AEM V2 and I would like to answer a few questions about the 03 Accord V6 V2. First: It will work on an Automatic; it was designed to work on both. I don't know whom you spoke with at AEM but I will find out and it won't be good for them when I do. Second: it seems that many of you do not agree with the power gains or the baseline numbers. I did all the tests using an OBD II scanner to monitor the coolant temps, fuel trims, and IAT temps. All the tests were done with the coolant temperature the same, with each pull coming about 3 minutes apart. The Baseline numbers were a little lower then I anticipated however the room temperature was about 90 degrees and all the runs were consistent. As for the gear I selected, on a dynojet it does not matter what gear you are in, the dyno compensates for it. For example, if you start in second and dyno all the way through the gears, the curves on the graph will change but the torque and power numbers will not. I hope this answers a few questions for everyone.
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Old February 7th, 2004, 06:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by modfreak1
I still say I don't believe the dyno numbers, because you should be able to achieve 217whp/195wtq in 4th, on a stock 6spd. All runs should have been done on premium fuel, and in 4th gear. with the 6spd, dynoing in different gears, will yeild different HP, and tq numbers. e.g 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th. What I believe we are seeing on that graph, is a 4th gear pull with the AEM(dyno number 2), and a 5th, or 6th gear pull with your stock air box(dyno number 1).
Though torquie can be a little overzealous, he does bring up a good point- a stock 6 speed should be approximately in the range of 217 whp. Obviously every car will dyno a little differently and maybe TOV got a very good car. This still doesn't explain the huge discrepency between your stock pull (198 whp) and TOV's. 19 hp at the wheels is too big of a difference to discount to variations between 6 speeds. TOV has proven themselves before- they dynoed a 2004 S2k at 243whp and everyone called BS and said Honda had given them a special model or something. They then dynoed a customers 2004 s2k and got nearly the same results. So I'll have to say TOV's results shouldn't be the first to be questioned since they back themselves up.

Now what about AEM? Why is their car with the V2 on it only pulling 220 yet TOV pulled 217 stock?

Both TOV and AEM(or R&D dyno services) used a dynojet so that's out of the question.

Reading Montaya's post again we see that it was about 90 degrees. (well the dyno says it too).

Could that explain the discrepency? That those numbers are not SAE corrected while TOV's numbers are?

It's possible. I'm not saying one or the other is right but here's what I'll say: I know Montaya is a good guy and is very knowledgable. I bet TOV's 217whp isn't wrong- that leads me to question the conclusion above- the numbers from AEM are not SAE corrected. AV6Coupe- are they SAE corrected? What happens to the numbers if they are corrected?
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Old February 7th, 2004, 06:37 PM   #19
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If you look at the chart, on the left it says SAE Corrected Horsepower.
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Old February 7th, 2004, 07:07 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by AV6Coupe2k3
As for me, I am satisfied with the V2 and I can feel the difference from stock.
With a claimed increase on 20whp, you should not just "feel" it, you should survive it! It should Feel really really stronger. If they made reasonable claims of 1-5whp, then I might believe, but 20, IMHO is just too much, considering you have no exhaust, downpipe, or any other modification. dynos are VERY easily faked. So basically, I do my own.

Last edited by modfreak1; February 7th, 2004 at 07:20 PM..
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Old February 7th, 2004, 07:19 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Captal
Though torquie can be a little overzealous, he does bring up a good point- a stock 6 speed should be approximately in the range of 217 whp. Obviously every car will dyno a little differently and maybe TOV got a very good car. This still doesn't explain the huge discrepency between your stock pull (198 whp) and TOV's.
dude, I just wanted to add some more stuff to your already brilliant post. Some people on this site are slowly starting to believe that stock 6spds are dynoing around 200whp stock, when this is completely false. The only time we have seen such low numbers are when we are being shown baseline dynos by aftermarket groups. Russianrsx dynoed 221whp basically stock, and added mods and dynoed to show gains, as mods were added. There was one other 6spd owner that dynoed his car, way back when, even before the TOV dyno. he pulled 226whp stock, and posted on the then www.accordv6.com. everyone called BS untill the TOV dyno came out to back him up. I used to have a pic of his dyno, but I've long since deleted it. russianrsx's dynos, however, can be seen using the search function.
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Old February 7th, 2004, 07:25 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by AV6Coupe2k3
If you look at the chart, on the left it says SAE Corrected Horsepower.
Then I really can't figure out how 198whp is possible for a stock 6 speed without some kind of error.
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Old February 7th, 2004, 07:29 PM   #23
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I should also add- you can't blame AEM for the "flawed" dynos- they were done by an outside company.

They did get 22whp, so it still makes me wonder what that will do to a car that's already pulling about 220 at the wheels...
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Old February 7th, 2004, 07:35 PM   #24
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They did get 22whp, so it still makes me wonder what that will do to a car that's already pulling about 220 at the wheels...
your forgetting the fact that most of us strongly doubt that you would see any gains with a CAI, especially on a 6spd, which has a CAI stock. Its not restrictive, and it pulls cold air from beneath the vehicle(basically a comptech icebox stock). The 6spd easily gains 20whp though, when you add a less restrictive exhaust, and due some fuel tunning, resulting in approximately 240whp.
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Old February 7th, 2004, 07:38 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Captal
I should also add- you can't blame AEM for the "flawed" dynos- they were done by an outside company.
yes, but AEM paid for the dyno though. And again, they have already admitted, that they sometimes dyno their intakes with modified cars, while trying to make it seem as it all the gains came from just the intake. Credit a TOV investigation for that bit of news. So they have before, and will use DECEPTIVE practices, to sell their stuff. With that said, I am not anti AEM, or CAI's in general. I have just learn't that in order to get maximum gains, more mods are usually neccessary.
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Old February 8th, 2004, 05:14 AM   #26
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i wonder what the HP gains would be just with a K&N drop in filter?
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Old February 8th, 2004, 09:48 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by unrealcpu
i wonder what the HP gains would be just with a K&N drop in filter?
A K&N drop-in filter? Whew! Probably about 10-20WHP! (Save your money.)
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Old February 8th, 2004, 11:18 AM   #28
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Well for 40 bucks compared to 300 plus install . They say the CAI only get 5hp for the 6mt . Id take 2-3 hp for a K&N drop in and not have to worry about hydrolocking your engine.
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Old February 8th, 2004, 05:51 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by unrealcpu
Well for 40 bucks compared to 300 plus install . They say the CAI only get 5hp for the 6mt . Id take 2-3 hp for a K&N drop in and not have to worry about hydrolocking your engine.
I hate to bump this thread...but, honestly, save your money. Don't bother with the K&N drop-in filter. 2-3 HP? Doubtful. And hydrolocking isn't as easy to do as you think.
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Old February 8th, 2004, 06:16 PM   #30
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ok
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