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Old March 30th, 2004, 06:27 AM   #1
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Skip Pad Results

How well do the cars handle stock? Has anyone tested, either professionally on a skidpad or using a Gtech?


BTW, I am hoping this will allow us to rise up from the dregs of some of these posts.

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Old March 30th, 2004, 07:41 AM   #2
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I think the results I've seen were on the order of .86 Gs skidpad and running in the mid-high 60s in the slalom.
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Old April 1st, 2004, 12:20 AM   #3
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Thats not bad at all. Give it some sways, tein's, big sticky rubber and you'll be hanging with the big boys.
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Old April 1st, 2004, 01:02 AM   #4
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where can we do some testing like this?
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Old April 1st, 2004, 09:39 AM   #5
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Large parking lot. In my area, UMBC, if you can get the cops to let you.
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Old April 26th, 2004, 09:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by mishima8
Large parking lot. In my area, UMBC, if you can get the cops to let you.
It's actually not up to the cops what you can do in a parking lot. They don't have any jurisdiction to issue moving violation tickets on PRIVATE property. Otherwise there'd be a speed trap set up at the start/finish line of every NASCAR race. You'd have to get permission from the owner of the property.
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Old April 26th, 2004, 09:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigBadBuford
I think the results I've seen were on the order of .86 Gs skidpad and running in the mid-high 60s in the slalom.
That's for a 6spd.

The auto versions are a lot mushier and only pull in the low 0.7x range on the skidpad. I wish Honda would offer an "SE" version of the AV6 auto with a decent handling setup like everybody else does.
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Old April 26th, 2004, 10:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by SteVTEC
That's for a 6spd.

The auto versions are a lot mushier and only pull in the low 0.7x range on the skidpad. I wish Honda would offer an "SE" version of the AV6 auto with a decent handling setup like everybody else does.
Isnt there an SE version offered the last year of each generation? Or did they stop that?
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Old April 27th, 2004, 07:11 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by KaiserSoze
It's actually not up to the cops what you can do in a parking lot. They don't have any jurisdiction to issue moving violation tickets on PRIVATE property. Otherwise there'd be a speed trap set up at the start/finish line of every NASCAR race. You'd have to get permission from the owner of the property.
Normally that is true, but UMBC is public property and the cops (university) have total jurisdiction.
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Old April 27th, 2004, 08:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by KaiserSoze on April 26th, 2004 at 11:44 PM

It's actually not up to the cops what you can do in a parking lot. They don't have any jurisdiction to issue moving violation tickets on PRIVATE property.


Huhhh......... I think you're wrong there. I think they do have jurisdiction on private property.

Try this to prove me wrong....... Go to the nearest store parking lot where a cop is parked, and start doing donuts, burnouts and e-brake slides. Since he doesn't have any power there, he can't screw with you, right?
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Old April 27th, 2004, 08:53 AM   #11
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LOL, last post is right. However, they can't stage from private property (eg do radar). They can go and enforce the law anywhere.
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Old April 27th, 2004, 09:03 AM   #12
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Re: Skip Pad Results

Quote:
Originally posted by mishima8 on March 30th, 2004 at 09:27 AM

How well do the cars handle stock?
Don't have 6-speed numbers, but for the auto, the skidpad number is .69g.


Quote:
Originally posted by SteVTEC on April 26th, 2004 at 11:54 PM

The auto versions are a lot mushier and only pull in the low 0.7x range on the skidpad.
There's more to handling than just the lateral accelleration numbers though.

For example, the 03 Accord EX V6 only pulls .69g, and the 03 Altima 3.5 SE pulls a much higher .75g on the skidpad...... so one may look at that and say that the Altima handles much better than than the Accord...... but all those numbers really show is the road holding capability on a constant radius circle, where, maybe, 1% of one's driving is actually done.

Lateral accelleration doesn't show how well any particular car handles turns, transitions between turns, and emergency manuevers. That is where the slalom numbers become relevant...... they are, imo, more indicative of situations and handling needed in everyday driving.

In the slalom, the "worser handling" Accord went thru at 60.0 mph, while the so-called "better handling" Altima went thru at a slower 59.2 mph. So even though the Accord can't go nearly as fast on a 200 ft. constant radius circle, it can change lanes and it transition from left turns to right turns, and vice-versa, better than the Altima.

And that's with the Accord having 205/60-16 tires, and the Altima having larger, wider 215/55-17 tires. Even with the bigger footprint, the Altima doesn't slalom quite as well. Put the larger rubber on the Accord, and it would probably do even better in the slalom, and probably close the gap some on the skidpad numbers too, imo.

All data from R&T Feb 2003.
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Old April 27th, 2004, 09:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by mishima8
LOL, last post is right. However, they can't stage from private property (eg do radar). They can go and enforce the law anywhere.
I have seen cops park in people's driveways with a radar gun, so I don't think that is true either
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Old April 27th, 2004, 09:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by mishima8 on April 27th, 2004 at 10:53 AM

However, they can't stage from private property (eg do radar).
In my city, they sit in people's yards to run radar on neighborhood streets. They also run radar from a church parking lot not far from me. So maybe it varies by state or something.
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Old April 27th, 2004, 11:33 AM   #15
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Re: Re: Skip Pad Results

Quote:
Originally posted by 03LXV6Guy
Don't have 6-speed numbers, but for the auto, the skidpad number is .69g.




There's more to handling than just the lateral accelleration numbers though.

For example, the 03 Accord EX V6 only pulls .69g, and the 03 Altima 3.5 SE pulls a much higher .75g on the skidpad...... so one may look at that and say that the Altima handles much better than than the Accord...... but all those numbers really show is the road holding capability on a constant radius circle, where, maybe, 1% of one's driving is actually done.

Lateral accelleration doesn't show how well any particular car handles turns, transitions between turns, and emergency manuevers. That is where the slalom numbers become relevant...... they are, imo, more indicative of situations and handling needed in everyday driving.

In the slalom, the "worser handling" Accord went thru at 60.0 mph, while the so-called "better handling" Altima went thru at a slower 59.2 mph. So even though the Accord can't go nearly as fast on a 200 ft. constant radius circle, it can change lanes and it transition from left turns to right turns, and vice-versa, better than the Altima.

And that's with the Accord having 205/60-16 tires, and the Altima having larger, wider 215/55-17 tires. Even with the bigger footprint, the Altima doesn't slalom quite as well. Put the larger rubber on the Accord, and it would probably do even better in the slalom, and probably close the gap some on the skidpad numbers too, imo.

All data from R&T Feb 2003.
So based on that one magazine comparison you could say the Accord slaloms better. But in a few other mag comparisons the Altima slalomed better.

And the maneuvers I perform on a daily basis are more of the steady state skidpad type of turns than swerving back and forth through cones so I'll disagree on that point too.
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Old April 27th, 2004, 12:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by 03LXV6Guy
In my city, they sit in people's yards to run radar on neighborhood streets. They also run radar from a church parking lot not far from me. So maybe it varies by state or something.
Yeah, once again, I generalized. It probably varies from state to state. We should check into it, as GI Joe says," and knowing is half the battle."
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Old April 27th, 2004, 01:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by SteVTEC on April 27th, 2004 at 01:33 PM

So based on that one magazine comparison you could say the Accord slaloms better. But in a few other mag comparisons the Altima slalomed better.
No, I'm not saying it slaloms better based on that....... I'm just saying there is more to handling than just the skidpad number that people quote often.



Quote:
Originally posted by SteVTEC

And the maneuvers I perform on a daily basis are more of the steady state skidpad type of turns than swerving back and forth through cones so I'll disagree on that point too.
That's cool....... I'm the flip side of that coin then....... I take very few steady state constant radius turns at near the limits of adhesion (fast yes, but not near the limits, you know, where the tires are "complaining"), whereas I definately take some corners, perform spirited lane changes, avoid idiots, etc with the tires "talking" to me.

No biggie. Different parts of the country with different road setups and drivers. Not a lot of large sweeping interstate-to-interstate type junctions around here, and the few that I do travel, rarely can I make it all the way around one before I run up on somebody (what the heck are they thinking, going the speed limit).
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Old April 27th, 2004, 07:07 PM   #18
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Originally posted by 03LXV6Guy


Huhhh......... I think you're wrong there. I think they do have jurisdiction on private property.

Try this to prove me wrong....... Go to the nearest store parking lot where a cop is parked, and start doing donuts, burnouts and e-brake slides. Since he doesn't have any power there, he can't screw with you, right?
He wouldn't be able to ticket you, but if you're being a nuisance and a store owner complains he can kick you off the property or cite you for trespassing. Also, if you're violating noise ordinances with your squealing tires he could cite you for that. As far as speeding, reckless driving, etc. they can't do that.

As for cops sitting on the side of the roads in people's yards, most cities have right of ways that extend at least 3 feet into your yard, so technically the cops are on city property.

However, i will reiterate my previous evidence about racetracks if cops were allowed to issue moving violations tickets on private property. I didn't know UMDB was a campus. I know that you can be ticketed by campus police (usually off duty city officers).

This whole post brings up some interesting questions about unlawful siezure if cops are sitting in your driveway and NOT on the city's right of way. IF they are doing that, they are temporarily siezing your property until they catch a speeder. Something to think about.

Oh yeah, keeping on the original topic of this whole post, I agree that slalom speeds tell you more about the actual handling capabilities of a car than a g pulled on a skidpad.

Last edited by KaiserSoze; April 27th, 2004 at 07:10 PM..
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Old April 28th, 2004, 07:56 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by KaiserSoze on April 27th, 2004 at 09:07 PM

He wouldn't be able to ticket you, but if you're being a nuisance and a store owner complains he can kick you off the property or cite you for trespassing. Also, if you're violating noise ordinances with your squealing tires he could cite you for that. As far as speeding, reckless driving, etc. they can't do that.
I don't know for sure (maybe somebody else can chime in with info --> Denali ), but what you say just doesn't seem right to me. Take the case of an abandoned shopping center, (where there are no tenants or store owners), I still don't believe it's not illegal to do burnouts, etc, assuming you're not breaking noise ordinances, and that they can ticket you for it.
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Old April 28th, 2004, 12:45 PM   #20
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hmm... not too bad. But i wonder what its gonna be like going from a .88/.89+ car to the accord.
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Old April 28th, 2004, 01:26 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by AdamB on April 28th, 2004 at 02:45 PM

hmm... not too bad. But i wonder what its gonna be like going from a .88/.89+ car to the accord.
If you're coming from the spec v, then it'll be a step up in everything except the handling.
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Old April 28th, 2004, 04:40 PM   #22
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in parking lots, whether they are public or private, cops can ticket you for noise pollution if you squeal the tires.
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Old April 28th, 2004, 11:58 PM   #23
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Don't forget that skid pads are smooth and real roads generally are not, nor are the turns always a constant radius or without any banking either positive or negative nor completly wet or dry.
That doesn't mean that skid pads are not useful tools, but they only show 1 aspect of vehicle dynamics.

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Old April 29th, 2004, 01:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by 03LXV6Guy
If you're coming from the spec v, then it'll be a step up in everything except the handling.
thats what im thinking... but i usually dont push my car to the limits often, so i dont think i'll notice

but man its fun sometimes, slammin people from one side of the car to the next
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Old April 30th, 2004, 01:31 PM   #25
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Quote from Car and Driver's test of the AV6 6 speed in September 2003:

"The Pilots are also an all-season design, but bigger footprints and shorter sidewalls produce better gripó0.82 g versus 0.74 for the EX four-door"

So the 6 speed did .82g versus .74 for the four door. Not sure where .86 is coming from. Also, I know the 6s pulls a 64.9 best in the slolum in terms of front wheel drive midsize cars, an RX-8 and Mazdaspeed Miata pull the same course in 67.7 per the mags, I don't see the AV6 topping any of these cars. I believe the AV6 would likely be in the low 60's in the slolum, not mid to upper....

Last edited by Blue Mazda; April 30th, 2004 at 01:39 PM..
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Old April 30th, 2004, 05:13 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blue Mazda on April 30th, 2004 at 03:31 PM

I believe the AV6 would likely be in the low 60's in the slolum, not mid to upper....
Did you see my earlier post (post #12)?


Quote:
Originally posted by 03LXV6Guy on April 27th, 2004 at 11:03 AM

In the slalom, the Accord went thru at 60.0 mph..........
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Old April 30th, 2004, 08:28 PM   #27
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Quote:
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in parking lots, whether they are public or private, cops can ticket you for noise pollution if you squeal the tires.
that kinda seems like BS though. You must have to really squeal the tires b/c mine do it constantly even when im not trying to. Its just a combo of the asphault, dirt, and torque. I've yet to get yelled at for it, but i bet it's just another thing they can tack on when they do decide to pull you over.
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Old April 30th, 2004, 09:10 PM   #28
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The .69g rating for the 7th gen sedan has also varied between magazines. I have seen it anywhere between .74 and .77 . BTW, none of these numbers should matter for daily driving. After all, its not like your gonna go full throttle around a traffic circle or slaloming between cars at high speeds in traffic. (and if you are, there are doubts as to whether you belong on the road). Skidpad test numbers are always going to different, as there are many variables. Road surface and skidpad lenghts are just a couple.
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Old May 5th, 2004, 01:58 AM   #29
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IMO a skidpad is a lot more of a testament to the tire's limits of adhesion and not the car's capabilities. Although the skidpad does load the suspension, it never really moves throughout the skidpad. In a slalom, however, the car is tested throughout the range of its suspension movement and has a lot more tendency to become upset and show short-comings in its suspension. Although tire grip is a limiting factor in both tests, I believe that the skidpad is a lot more beneficial to compare between cars.
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Old May 5th, 2004, 05:52 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigBadBuford
I think the results I've seen were on the order of .86 Gs skidpad and running in the mid-high 60s in the slalom.
This is the post I am reacting to, not your post about the slalom of 60 mph......
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