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Old April 7th, 2004, 11:14 PM   #1
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Unhappy Comptech mods- will our gains be as small as their TSX

I'm no expert on Honda engines, so if someone here (like SteVTEC) could enlighten me please do.

I was checking out Comptech's dyno of a TSX with their icebox, header & catback and was shocked at how small the "gains" & how big the losses were...
http://www.comptechusa.com/images/dy...tech_tuned.pdf

Unless you stay above 6200 rpm all the time, why spend the $1633 in mods? The torque loss at certain rpms is pretty bad and I think you'd be better off stock for a consistant rise.

Sad to say, but I think Comptech's 7th gen mods will be just as weak as the TSX.

Am I missing something
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Old April 7th, 2004, 11:27 PM   #2
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I'll let someone else fill in with the details.

I think we will be seeing some pretty good gains from CT parts for our car, moreso than the 6th gen AV6s.

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Old April 7th, 2004, 11:36 PM   #3
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after reading this the only parts i would consider putting into my car is what ever produces low to mid range torque and hp.
Is it even possible to have a dramatic increase in low end torque and hp on a honda???
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Old April 7th, 2004, 11:44 PM   #4
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Quote:
I think we will be seeing some pretty good gains from CT parts for our car, moreso than the 6th gen AV6s.
I checked the 6th gen dyno. With the header & exhaust you start getting steady gains above 3600. But you really need the s/c to get anything worth talking about IMO...

http://www.comptechusa.com/images/dyno/98av6scfinal.pdf

Compared to stock, I'm looking for a steady increase in torque & hp starting at a lower rpms rather than just gains at the high end.

I'm new to Honda engines, so I still need to learn about them.
I'm used to GM pushrod V8's & s/c V6's that had tons of low end when mod'd.

Last edited by turbines; April 7th, 2004 at 11:48 PM..
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Old April 8th, 2004, 11:21 AM   #5
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my guess is that honda engineered the TSX so well that their stock parts approached the performance of the aftermarket...all the while retaining the senior citizen factor. pick up the newest edition of automotive engineering magazine and check out the extensive testing they do on just exhausts alone. they really put most aftermarket companies to shame with the amount of engineering they put into their stock exhausts.

exhaust design is not just about minimizing bends and matching diameters. there is a lot more fluid mechanic and heat transfer engineering than you might think.

i cringe with the concept of people just going to meineke or midas for their exhaust work. those are blue-collar workers bending tubes like monkeys, with no formal schooling. i wouldn't trust them.
i also cringe when people buy exhausts from aftermarket companies with no liscensed engineers designing parts. like DC sports, with two brothers who designed exhaust components with only welding skills. yes, they may make a quality part, but i'd like the peace of mind that comes from knowing they did real calculations rather than just trial and error dyno testing.
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Old April 8th, 2004, 07:43 PM   #6
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So you could say the same holds to cars like the BMW M3, that car is pretty much maxed out from the factory(speaking of performance), that's why companies like dinan and Kellners haven't been successful in developing bolt-on aftermarket parts, not to the extent that RMS was able to achieve by putting on a centrifugal supercharger to finally gain serious power. I must say though i am impressed that acura reached this level, but i heard someone would be developing a blower.....boost anyone?
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Old April 9th, 2004, 02:27 AM   #7
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Its probably alot like the 6th gen v6's, they had exellently matched intakes and exausts for the power output of the motor from the factory. Comptech parts will provides gains at every RPM I bet if it had about 10psi of boost blowing into the motor and needed the extra flow from the exaust.
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Old April 9th, 2004, 11:35 AM   #8
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Wait your saying the 6gen accord's intake and exhaust are efficent ? Please, don't tell me that, they restrict the air flow too much, you know our intake is just a damn box that collects air at the bottom and takes an eternity to reach the throttle body. Like i said before, any stock car can benefit greatly in air flow effiency by adding a true CAI, now about the exhaust you may be right about that.
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Old April 9th, 2004, 05:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lxcord
Wait your saying the 6gen accord's intake and exhaust are efficent ? Please, don't tell me that, they restrict the air flow too much, you know our intake is just a damn box that collects air at the bottom and takes an eternity to reach the throttle body. Like i said before, any stock car can benefit greatly in air flow effiency by adding a true CAI, now about the exhaust you may be right about that.
Ever read about the accord ACR [accord type-R]? They used a v6 coupe, with 300hp out of the J30A1, and a modify'd 4sp auto. Very sweet car. Lots of testing that probably went into the J30A4. Anyways they used a stock intake. They said the best flowing setup was a modify'd stock airbox.

Now look at the improvments you get from just a intake and exaust on the 6th gen v6's. It isen't very much at all. That means there wasen't alot being lost in the first place.
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Old April 9th, 2004, 11:17 PM   #10
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So i should ditch my intake and just port my stock air box ???
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Old April 10th, 2004, 12:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
So i should ditch my intake and just port my stock air box ???
I dremel tool'd all the baffles out of mine & removed the metal bar from the lid. Then I added the 6-spd "U" tube that draws cold fender air.

It's night & day difference over the stock auto resonator & baffeled box.
It's obviously louder, but on a hard dry pavement launch my auto breaks the tires loose shifting to 2nd & gives the traction light going in 3rd that's all the proof I need.
I'm just too lazy to dyno it for actual #'s to compare with other CAI's.
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Old April 10th, 2004, 01:29 PM   #12
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Can you post some pics please, i know you have a 7gen accord, but i am still intetested, thanx.
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Old April 11th, 2004, 12:12 PM   #13
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Turbines,

I would also be interested in your modding of stock airbox...

I was just going to get the breather tube from the 6-speed (I have V6 auto coupe), but am very interested in how you modded stock airbox...

Thanks!
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Old April 11th, 2004, 03:38 PM   #14
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Sorry, I never took any pics – but this diagram should help…



Lid – item #1
There is a metal bar inside that’s in the airflow to the throttle body. You remove this by popping off the 2 plastic caps on the outside of the lid. After these caps are off, you’ll see 2 phillips head screws. Remove the 2 screws to get the bar out. Make sure to leave the metal inserts in the lid. Plug the holes by using counter sunk screws, washers & nuts. The head of the screw goes inside the box sitting flush in the insert and the washer & nut go on the outside where the plastic caps used to be.

Bottom – item #8
There is a large curved baffle that directs airflow from the inlet – you can see it in the diagram. This baffle blocks part of the filter. If you have a dirty air filter you can see how the corner is clean & “unused”. Take a dremel tool and cut down this curved baffle as much as you can – be careful not to go thru the bottom.

Next remove the resonator & put the 6spd tube on. Mackdaddy has pics on this here…
http://www.v6performance.net/forums/...?threadid=1498

I also replaced the metal breather & coolant lines from the rubber intake tube to the throttle body. The coolant running thru this really heats up that metal assembly. I just wanted to keep a little more heat away from the intake. I replaced the breather tube with a piece of heater hose & 90 deg nylon fitting. For the coolant line I just redirected an existing hose to the throttle body.

I hope this helps…
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Old April 11th, 2004, 03:56 PM   #15
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Re: Comptech mods- will our gains be as small as their TSX

Quote:
Originally posted by turbines
Am I missing something
Yeah. What the heck does a K24 TSX engine have to do with the J30A4 that's in your Accord?
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Old April 11th, 2004, 03:57 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lxcord
Wait your saying the 6gen accord's intake and exhaust are efficent ? Please, don't tell me that, they restrict the air flow too much, you know our intake is just a damn box that collects air at the bottom and takes an eternity to reach the throttle body. Like i said before, any stock car can benefit greatly in air flow effiency by adding a true CAI, now about the exhaust you may be right about that.
Please stop reading "tooner" mags.

They want nothing more than to make you believe that factory setups are ridiculously restrictive pieces of crap because it fuels part sales and makes their advertisers happy. But in many (not all) cases it just isn't so. Could you imagine the fallout if word got out that modified stock airboxes gave just as good improvements over stock if not better than an expensive CAI setup?

Most of the "restriction" in an intake setup is the resonator box. Remove that and not only do you drop some weight, but also most of the "restriction" and gain some nice sound also. Total cost: FREE
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Old April 11th, 2004, 04:03 PM   #17
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Damn i got by steve ! I am such a noob
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Old April 11th, 2004, 04:31 PM   #18
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heck, i'd bet if those engineers at at honda were actually given the green light to develop their engines as they pleased, they'd put hytech, comptech, toda, and all those other companies to shame. they know their stuff. they have guys working who have gotten PHd's in fluid flows and thermodynamics. i doubt if most aftermarket companies have a single liscensed engineer working for them.
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Old April 11th, 2004, 10:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by SteVTEC

Yeah. What the heck does a K24 TSX engine have to do with the J30A4 that's in your Accord?
Not a damn thing, sir. Obviously you missed my point & sorry I asked for your input.
My point was that Comptech didn't really improve the TSX that much. Thus, I'm not expecting too much for our 7th gen.
If you read & understood my follow-up, you'd have also seen my disappointment in Comptech's 6th gen V6 - which relates more to our 7th gen V6's.

Quote:
Most of the "restriction" in an intake setup is the resonator box.?
Agreed. Now back to the totally unrelated TSX K24 - the TSX airbox is pretty close in design to our J30A4 airbox, so I'd think its ok to compare it. Mugen's TSX box uses a velocity stack in place of a resonator or tube. I think this velocity stack idea would be an improvement over the 6spd tube.
http://www.kingmotorsports.com/product.asp?detail=1670

FYI, I really wasn't planning on this turning into another intake debate. I was just looking to confirm my doubts on a total Comptech package.

Last edited by turbines; April 11th, 2004 at 10:29 PM..
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Old April 11th, 2004, 10:27 PM   #20
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Originally posted by turbines
Not a damn thing, sir. Obviously you missed my point & sorry I asked for your input.
My point was that Comptech didn't really improve the TSX that much. Thus, I'm not expecting too much for our 7th gen.
If you read & understood my follow-up, you'd have also seen my disappointment in Comptech's 6th gen V6 - which relates more to our 7th gen V6's.



Agreed. Now back to the totally unrelated TSX K24 - the TSX airbox is pretty close in design to our J30A4 airbox, so I'd think its ok to compare it. Mugen's TSX box uses a velocity stack in place of a resonator or tube.
I think this velocity stack idea would be an improvement over the 6spd tube.
http://www.kingmotorsports.com/product.asp?detail=1670

FYI, I really wasn't planning on this turning into another intake debate.
Whatever results we see for the TSX or 6th Accord is pretty much irrelevent when it comes to the 7th gen V6. Our engines are completely different and will respond differently to aftermarket parts. Presumptions made by comparing gains for other engines is not reliable at all.
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Old April 11th, 2004, 10:36 PM   #21
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Certain principles still remain the same regardless of engine.

Sorry I even asked - obvoiusly nobody gets where I'm coming from.

Die thread, die...
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Old April 11th, 2004, 10:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by turbines on April 11th, 2004 at 11:08 PM

Not a damn thing, sir. Obviously you missed my point & sorry I asked for your input.
My point was that Comptech didn't really improve the TSX that much. Thus, I'm not expecting too much for our 7th gen.
If you read & understood my follow-up, you'd have also seen my disappointment in Comptech's 6th gen V6 - which relates more to our 7th gen V6's.

Agreed. Now back to the totally unrelated TSX K24 - the TSX airbox is pretty close in design to our J30A4 airbox, so I'd think its ok to compare it. Mugen's TSX box uses a velocity stack in place of a resonator or tube. I think this velocity stack idea would be an improvement over the 6spd tube.
http://www.kingmotorsports.com/product.asp?detail=1670

FYI, I really wasn't planning on this turning into another intake debate. I was just looking to confirm my doubts on a total Comptech package.
The TSX K series is pretty much maxed out at this point. The K series are still new and better OEM parts will probably be made later on to give the engine more power. The J30A4 still has room for improvement so you should see better gains from aftermarket parts (not including intake) .



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Old April 12th, 2004, 07:17 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by turbines
I'm just too lazy to dyno it for actual #'s to compare with other CAI's.
this says it all.


more butt dynos.


The general membership base of this site will be hard pressed to learn anything about their cars until this mentality changes.
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