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Old May 28th, 2004, 02:04 PM   #1
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Premium vs Regular Fuel

We've all heard (on this forum and elsewhere) that premium fuel (91 to 93 octane) was good for 10 hp in the J series. What I didn't know (until SteVTEC mentioned it in another thread) was that the source of that info was non-other than Honda V-6 engineer Yasuaki Asaki who ought to know. From a pre-release road test of the 03 AV6 in USA Today:

"The Accord V-6 ratings assume regular-grade fuel, and Honda will market it as a regular-fuel engine. But pssst it's good for another 10 hp and 10-plus lbs.-ft. on premium, acknowledges V-6 engineer Asaki."

Those are pretty impressive gains for a couple of bucks a fill-up - even at today's prices. Won't void your warranty either.

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Old May 28th, 2004, 02:36 PM   #2
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Good deal, I can't remember how many posts I've seen where people are arguing this up and down. Nice to have some printed proof to shut people up.

Thanks!
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Old May 28th, 2004, 02:46 PM   #3
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Yeah, all we need now is a dyno of regular vs premium on the same car and same dyno
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Old May 28th, 2004, 02:55 PM   #4
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oh you want PROOF proof....
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Old May 28th, 2004, 03:01 PM   #5
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with the gas prices these days, screw premium
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Old May 28th, 2004, 03:41 PM   #6
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Ummm...no offense, but this topic of premium vs. regular as well as the engineer who spoke about it was new almost two years ago. Therefore, this thread is teh ghey.




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Old May 28th, 2004, 03:48 PM   #7
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Old May 28th, 2004, 04:26 PM   #8
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hey stevtec, maybe you should make your avatar the engineering garbageman from dilbert.
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Old May 28th, 2004, 04:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by i3igpete
hey stevtec, maybe you should make your avatar the engineering garbageman from dilbert.
oooooo...good idea!! I forgot about him. I'll try to find a pic.
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Old May 28th, 2004, 08:08 PM   #10
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Once my AV6 6spd comes in I will try it on the dyno. I have pretty much unlimited access to a dyno dynamics AWD dyno near my home I will do before and after dynos for all my mods
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Old May 28th, 2004, 08:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveDB
Ummm...no offense, but this topic of premium vs. regular as well as the engineer who spoke about it was new almost two years ago. Therefore, this thread is teh ghey.





haha nice one
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Old May 29th, 2004, 11:48 AM   #12
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I'd never used regular or plus fuel on my cars...
except that morning that I'm falling asleep and put some 87 on my old car :P

I can feel the engine is waaaay smoother then the tank of 87 dealer gives me...
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Old June 14th, 2004, 11:20 AM   #13
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Somebody should test it

Why doesn't somebody try it? Try it with the 93 octane then empty the tank and throw some 87 in there. Do a few runs...take your average time and compare the results!
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Old June 14th, 2004, 11:23 AM   #14
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people have done that already. waaaaaay back ck2000 did some runs at the track on regular and couldn't get better than a 15.3. Then on premium he did a 15.0 under similar conditions and similar 60', IIRC.

What we NEED is a 87 vs 93 dyno on the same car and same dyno, or some OBD-II logs showing timing advance for 87 vs 93 also.
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Old June 16th, 2004, 11:00 AM   #15
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I have access to a dyno that I can use for this test. My question is, does the car need some time to adjust itself after switching fuel grades? Can I run a few pulls on an almost empty tank of 93 and put in a couple of gallons of 87 and run again?

I mean will this be accurate? I also have access to an OBDII scanner that I can record timings.
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Old June 16th, 2004, 11:21 AM   #16
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Supposedly the ECU needs about 300 miles to adjust. Timing data via OBD-II would be good too.
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Old June 16th, 2004, 11:38 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by SteVTEC
Supposedly the ECU needs about 300 miles to adjust. Timing data via OBD-II would be good too.
I can agree with this if you are changing from say 87 UP TO 93, but the ECU will insantly pull the timing down to minimum once the first sign of detonation or pre-ignition occurs (going from 93 down to 87).

So the best test would be to use 93 for a tank or 2, then dyno with 93 (almost empty tank), then FILL the tank with 87 to dilute the 93 and see if the difference is what it is claimed to be.
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Old June 16th, 2004, 03:28 PM   #18
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Ok. Got it.

I am thinking if I can do the pulls of different grades on the same day within a couple of hours, that will take out the temp/humidity factor too.

Gimme a day or two to run this tank of 93 down. I will post findings.

Last edited by EricT; June 16th, 2004 at 03:36 PM..
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Old June 17th, 2004, 06:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by EricT on June 16th, 2004 at 05:28 PM

Ok. Got it.

I am thinking if I can do the pulls of different grades on the same day within a couple of hours, that will take out the temp/humidity factor too.

Gimme a day or two to run this tank of 93 down. I will post findings.
Finally, someone is going to do it . Can't wait to see the results . Try to get OBD II timing readings of both 87 and 93 if the shop offers that.

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveDB on May 28th, 2004 at 05:41 PM

Ummm...no offense, but this topic of premium vs. regular as well as the engineer who spoke about it was new almost two years ago. Therefore, this thread is teh ghey.





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Old June 19th, 2004, 07:56 AM   #20
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itz only a 20 cent difference from 87 -> 93
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Old June 20th, 2004, 08:57 PM   #21
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thank you, master of the obvious
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Old June 21st, 2004, 03:44 PM   #22
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I talked to my friend who owns the dyno. He said his OBDII scanner is waiting for an updates to datalog the 2004 Hondas. If we have to visually record the timing changes, any particular range that you would like to see?

Plus any suggestions on which gear to pull? 3rd or 4th?
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Old June 21st, 2004, 04:04 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by EricT on June 21st, 2004 at 05:44 PM

I talked to my friend who owns the dyno. He said his OBDII scanner is waiting for an updates to datalog the 2004 Hondas. If we have to visually record the timing changes, any particular range that you would like to see?

Plus any suggestions on which gear to pull? 3rd or 4th?
I think everyone wants to see the difference in timing between 87 and 91-93 octane. Not sure about which gear to use for best results.



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Old June 21st, 2004, 04:52 PM   #24
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My Butt Dyno says there is a very noticable differance. And is it not the only one that really matters? Fun is my goal, not numbers. EXACTA
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Old June 21st, 2004, 06:01 PM   #25
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For the 6speeds I think your suppose to dyno in 4th.
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Old June 21st, 2004, 09:36 PM   #26
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4th is probably the 1:1 ratio, which is what you use.
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Old June 22nd, 2004, 01:25 AM   #27
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Alrighty then! Off to the dyno tomorrow.

This is the first run of this car. Car has 6000 + miles. This will be used as the baseline. Then I will run the car whenever I make any changes to it.

Too bad it is so dang hot and humid in Texas these past few days. I hope I don't get a 189 with 93!! LOL!
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Old June 22nd, 2004, 06:55 PM   #28
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It rained buckets here today! Sorry folks. Hopefully tomorrow.
This is the only rainy day that I didn't like for a long while.
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Old June 22nd, 2004, 07:04 PM   #29
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You will be a stud when you finish this. Make sure you go a while between the dynos. It takes a while for the ECu to adjust to the preium
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Old June 22nd, 2004, 07:17 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by drdingo21 on June 22nd, 2004 at 09:04 PM

You will be a stud when you finish this. Make sure you go a while between the dynos. It takes a while for the ECu to adjust to the preium
It all depends. He will have to use an OBD II scanner at the shop to know if the timing adjusted for the higher octane.



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