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Old August 28th, 2004, 07:52 AM   #1
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Losing the wheel weight

If I change my 16" steel to 16" SSR-COMP and lose 7.5 pound on each wheel, will I feel a significant improvement on acceleration?

Someone said that losing the wheel weight really doesn't help to improve acceleration.

PS : 1 Is ssr-c realiable? stronger than honda steel wheel?
2 Can u recommend good intake and exhauster system?
how much do they improve the performance?
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Old August 28th, 2004, 08:46 AM   #2
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iirc, something like 1 pound off each wheels ~ 40 pounds off the car or some large number like that. so yes, wheel weight does help A LOT.
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Old August 28th, 2004, 09:25 AM   #3
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^ So going by that rough formula, if 4 lbs. of wheel weight removed (@ 1lbs. per wheel) = a performance increase equivalent to 40 lbs. of weight removed from the car, then 30 lbs. of wheel weight removed (@ 7.5 lbs. per wheel) would theoretically yield a performance increase equivalent to a 300 lbs. weight reduction.

If that formula is right, your butt dyno should certainly feel the difference.
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Old August 28th, 2004, 09:49 AM   #4
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Yes, I would say performance would certainly be better! Handling, braking and accelerating!

But the 1:40 ratio may be a bit off IMO. I know for sure 300lbs less on a vehicle results in an extremely significant performance improvement, but I don't think 7.5lbs less per wheel would result in that ... dunno, maybe 1:20?

Anyway, anyone know the complete detail specs on the stock AV6 5AT 16" wheels? Weight, offset, etc?
Anyone know of other good 16x6.5" or 16x7" super light wheels that'l fit our AV6s?

One negative thing that lighter wheels impact is comfort. The lighter wheels cause the tires to less dampen shocks and bumps (b/c they're so good in following the road surface) thus you'd feel a more "jittery" ride.
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Old August 28th, 2004, 12:27 PM   #5
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hmm

stock 16" steel wheel's weight is 18lb each.

Anyways.
I figured out that ssr-c's 16" wheel has only offset of 4*100
what should I do? I really want 16" ssr-c
is there 5*110 ( or i dunno, the offset that fits my car , accord lx v6) ssr-c 16"?
I really don't want 18"
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Old August 28th, 2004, 01:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDB
^ So going by that rough formula, if 4 lbs. of wheel weight removed (@ 1lbs. per wheel) = a performance increase equivalent to 40 lbs. of weight removed from the car, then 30 lbs. of wheel weight removed (@ 7.5 lbs. per wheel) would theoretically yield a performance increase equivalent to a 300 lbs. weight reduction.

If that formula is right, your butt dyno should certainly feel the difference.
Shaving 300lbs off your car following another rule of thumb (every 100lbs lost lowers Quater Mile ET by a tenth of a second) so your quater mile et would go down by 0.3 seconds!
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Old August 28th, 2004, 02:05 PM   #7
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I personally think that shaving 300lb of our cars would result better than just 0.3 sec 1/4" ET .. I would imagine 0.5" or so!
But then again I also think 7.5lbs off per wheel shouldn't translate to 0.5" of ET either .. proly 0.3" at most.

Anyway, I think this kind of performance mod is well worth the $$$!

You may spend about $1K if not $2K, but you'd shave a good 0.3" off your ET, improve braking, improve handling, improve looks .. all while maintaining a quiet ride at no risk of warranty void

Wonder why not many people do this kinda mod ... hmm
Instead they put on heavy 18"-19" wheels (25lb+).. and accomplish the opposite of the improvements listed above (except for looks of course).
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Old August 28th, 2004, 02:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipribadi
One negative thing that lighter wheels impact is comfort. The lighter wheels cause the tires to less dampen shocks and bumps (b/c they're so good in following the road surface) thus you'd feel a more "jittery" ride.
I dont think that the lighter wheels would impact comfort negatively at least not the way you think. Wheels don't dampen shock. Thats the suspensions job (spring shocks etc) and tires (which will be the same width and aspect ratio I believe). The stock wheels mass would react slower as you mentioned to change just like a heavier flywheel keeps more momentum and kinetic energy as opposed to a lighter one the speeds up and slows down quicker. Personally I would like the car to follow the road better and not get air time but thats just me, I would believe from that alone that you would get a better ride.

But hey I could be wrong thats just my two cents
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Old August 28th, 2004, 05:07 PM   #9
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i dont know the exact ratio for weight/performance increase, but it is better to reduce revolving or rotating mass over dead weight. reducing weight that spins of moves lightens the load and stress necessary to move that particular object. dont know if that makes sense. for example, i think having lighter rims would help your performance more than just taking out a passenger seat.

~STEVE
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Old August 28th, 2004, 05:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by platanus
stock 16" steel wheel's weight is 18lb each.

Anyways.
I figured out that ssr-c's 16" wheel has only offset of 4*100
what should I do? I really want 16" ssr-c
is there 5*110 ( or i dunno, the offset that fits my car , accord lx v6) ssr-c 16"?
I really don't want 18"
Those numbers in your post are not "offset". Appear to be lug nut quantity and bolt circle. BC on our cars is 5 x 4.5".

Last edited by 2003 VTEC; August 28th, 2004 at 09:44 PM..
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Old August 28th, 2004, 05:34 PM   #11
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keep in mind that nobody is keeping track of tire weight. those suckers are heavy, and tire manufacturers rarely publish tire weight... tires weigh approximately 25-30 lbs. and since tires are the largest weight away from the axle, their weight is a much bigger fish compared to the wheels. people need to understand this.

also, tires get heavier as you go up in size and shrink the aspect ratio. yes, a "smaller" performance tire will weigh more than a fatty stock one. you have to support the same car weight with less sidewall area so you must beef it up with stronger, and thus heavier, belts.
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Old August 28th, 2004, 05:52 PM   #12
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I agree with i3igpete. I heard that there are some light tires.
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Old August 28th, 2004, 05:53 PM   #13
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do I have to get only wheel with BC 5 * 4.5 " ?
I hardly saw any wheel with that BC
I think someone sad BC 5 * 114 will fit.
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Old August 28th, 2004, 09:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by platanus
do I have to get only wheel with BC 5 * 4.5 " ?
I hardly saw any wheel with that BC
I think someone sad BC 5 * 114 will fit.
5 x 4.5" is probably the most common bolt pattern used on cars & trucks today. There are virtually 100's of different wheels available with that bolt pattern. You'll sometimes see 4.5" listed as 114.3 or even 114 (millimeters). Same thing. Check out a site like Discount Tire Direct for a good sample of what is available.
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Old August 28th, 2004, 09:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i3igpete
keep in mind that nobody is keeping track of tire weight. those suckers are heavy, and tire manufacturers rarely publish tire weight... tires weigh approximately 25-30 lbs. and since tires are the largest weight away from the axle, their weight is a much bigger fish compared to the wheels. people need to understand this.

also, tires get heavier as you go up in size and shrink the aspect ratio. yes, a "smaller" performance tire will weigh more than a fatty stock one. you have to support the same car weight with less sidewall area so you must beef it up with stronger, and thus heavier, belts.
Nobody is keeping track of the tire weigt b/c were asuming he'll get a tire thats approximatley the same weight. Yes most performance tires are heavier but if you got a smaller profile tire ( and smaller overall tire/wheel assembly) the tires weight wouldn't be as far out from the center of the wheel.. but then who would do that, lol. Some sites give you the tires weight. Im just happy that my tire wheel combo weighs only 25lbs
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Old August 28th, 2004, 10:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Posted by Unorthodox Racing
Weight loss is the most critical factor in making, or more accurately, relesing Horsepower! Each pound of weight taken off the engines rotating assembly is worth approximately 2.7HP and the figure increases dramatically with forced induction, nitrous, VTEC and increased RPM's.
http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/faq_pulleys.html
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Old August 29th, 2004, 02:52 AM   #17
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That applies to the ENGINES rotating assemblies. It would be less for the unsprung weight, just not sure how much.
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Old August 29th, 2004, 03:15 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Accord_V6_400m
Nobody is keeping track of the tire weigt b/c were asuming he'll get a tire thats approximatley the same weight. Yes most performance tires are heavier but if you got a smaller profile tire ( and smaller overall tire/wheel assembly) the tires weight wouldn't be as far out from the center of the wheel.. but then who would do that, lol. Some sites give you the tires weight. Im just happy that my tire wheel combo weighs only 25lbs

well in most cases, it kind of irks me how people obsess over getting an ultra light wheel instead of a cheapie, then just buying a tire that they heard is pretty good from the guy down the street. why spend an extra 500 dollars for the difference of 3 lbs on each wheel, when the heaviest part (the tire) isn't selected for it's weight properties? i see it all the time. tires can vary in weight from model to model over 10, and that's at the same exact size! i guess people don't see the big picture and don't realize that shyt tires will completely negate the effect of their super-ultra-japanese-lightweight-forged-magnesium-alloy wheels.
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Old August 29th, 2004, 09:17 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i3igpete
well in most cases, it kind of irks me how people obsess over getting an ultra light wheel instead of a cheapie, then just buying a tire that they heard is pretty good from the guy down the street. why spend an extra 500 dollars for the difference of 3 lbs on each wheel, when the heaviest part (the tire) isn't selected for it's weight properties? i see it all the time. tires can vary in weight from model to model over 10, and that's at the same exact size! i guess people don't see the big picture and don't realize that shyt tires will completely negate the effect of their super-ultra-japanese-lightweight-forged-magnesium-alloy wheels.
Good point, Pete.
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Old August 29th, 2004, 09:29 AM   #20
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Agree with the point on tires ... hmm so who knows of some tire weight database?

Again on lighter wheels having a more jittery ride:
To put it simple, imagine if your wheels are 500 lb each (and that your tires can withstand it). Your car would be smoother b/c your tires would absorb most of the energy (from the bump) coz your wheels resist movement so much.

The motion that the tire force tries to impend on the wheels (then the wheels to the suspension, the suspension to the car .. the car to you) is resisted by the wheels (wheel+tire weight and suspension force)

A balloon would burst by throwing it at a wall if the balloon was filled with water (absorbs the energy converts it into deformation --> burst). But if the balloon were filled with air, it would not burst (balloon only bounces .. converts the energy into motion)

This is how I understand why lighter wheels would cause a more jittery ride (slightly). Overall, it's still a trivial negative effect compared to the much gained positive effects of lighter wheel
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Old August 29th, 2004, 09:29 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i3igpete
well in most cases, it kind of irks me how people obsess over getting an ultra light wheel instead of a cheapie, then just buying a tire that they heard is pretty good from the guy down the street. why spend an extra 500 dollars for the difference of 3 lbs on each wheel, when the heaviest part (the tire) isn't selected for it's weight properties? i see it all the time. tires can vary in weight from model to model over 10, and that's at the same exact size! i guess people don't see the big picture and don't realize that shyt tires will completely negate the effect of their super-ultra-japanese-lightweight-forged-magnesium-alloy wheels.
Where is a good place to find out various tire weights? I looked at several tire mfgr's sites and found no info regarding weight.
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Old August 29th, 2004, 09:34 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Accord_V6_400m
That applies to the ENGINES rotating assemblies. It would be less for the unsprung weight, just not sure how much.
take a wild guess on what drives wheels.
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Old August 29th, 2004, 02:58 PM   #23
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I've heard 1 lb of weight loss is worth anywhere between 2 - 10 lb of weight reduction on the rest of your car. Anyway when I switched from the OEM 17" to 17" Sparco NT-Rs and Toyo tires I weighed the wheel/tire combo and lost about 10 lbs each wheel. I definitely felt increase in acceleration.
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Old August 29th, 2004, 10:24 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Si
...17" Sparco NT-Rs and Toyo tires I weighed the wheel/tire combo and lost about 10 lbs each wheel. I definitely felt increase in acceleration.
Quick ? for you - Now that you've had your Sparco NT-R's for a while, have you had any issues with them?

I've been thinking about getting a set, but they sure look thin & are cast not forged. I have to deal with Chicago area potholes & some rough roads - I need rims that can take some abuse.

Thanks for any feedback.
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Old August 29th, 2004, 11:34 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HONDA_99
take a wild guess on what drives wheels.
Well would you see greater gains from lightened pulleys or wheels? Pulleys being obviously much closer to the engine then the wheels. So what does drive the wheels?? By the way, a wheel isn't apart of an engines rotating assembly parts like pullies , crankshafts, and camshafts are, I would think that the wheels would be more apart of the cars rotating assemblies as a whole.

Last edited by Accord_V6_400m; August 29th, 2004 at 11:39 PM..
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Old August 29th, 2004, 11:58 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i3igpete
well in most cases, it kind of irks me how people obsess over getting an ultra light wheel instead of a cheapie, then just buying a tire that they heard is pretty good from the guy down the street. why spend an extra 500 dollars for the difference of 3 lbs on each wheel, when the heaviest part (the tire) isn't selected for it's weight properties? i see it all the time. tires can vary in weight from model to model over 10, and that's at the same exact size! i guess people don't see the big picture and don't realize that shyt tires will completely negate the effect of their super-ultra-japanese-lightweight-forged-magnesium-alloy wheels.
Yeah it ticks me off to see people get ultra-light wheels, possibly some good tires and keep the stock lug nuts! Do you know how much weight you can shave off with 5ZIGEN RACING NUTs??

I don't know either but it must be a lot

http://www.importparts.com/shop/prod...oducts_id=4920 V
Lightweight open-end forged lug nuts, fully heat treated by AL 7075 T6 aluminum and CNC machined to the final weight of a mere 0.9 ounces each (60% lighter than original lug nuts). Improve handling by reducing unsprung weight.

^^ damn this stuff is overkill, so your saving just from the lug nuts: 21.6 ounces or 1.35lbs (from all 16 lug nuts) on our 5-stud cars we would save 27 ounces or
1.6875lbs wow! lol

Last edited by Accord_V6_400m; August 30th, 2004 at 12:08 AM..
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Old August 30th, 2004, 07:30 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Accord_V6_400m
Well would you see greater gains from lightened pulleys or wheels? Pulleys being obviously much closer to the engine then the wheels. So what does drive the wheels?? By the way, a wheel isn't apart of an engines rotating assembly parts like pullies , crankshafts, and camshafts are, I would think that the wheels would be more apart of the cars rotating assemblies as a whole.
Engine drives everything; pulleys, torque converter/flywheel and wheel.
Pulleys isnít part of engine, they part of accessories. Engine will work just fine without crank pulley, until battery dies. But you right about crankshaft and camshafts, they are part of engine rotating mass.
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Old August 30th, 2004, 11:04 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbines
Quick ? for you - Now that you've had your Sparco NT-R's for a while, have you had any issues with them?

I've been thinking about getting a set, but they sure look thin & are cast not forged. I have to deal with Chicago area potholes & some rough roads - I need rims that can take some abuse.

Thanks for any feedback.


No problems with the NT-Rs so far. Though the roads I typically drive are mostly smooth, I have run over a couple of potholes and been on a rough road or two and have not had a problem. Oh BTW I had to get some lightweight lug nuts for them as the stock ones didn't fit.
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Old August 30th, 2004, 11:35 AM   #29
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While on the subject of reducing rotational inertia. Has anyone thought to reduce weight ofthe brake rotor?

We're down to having high perf lug nuts aren't we? ( I seriously doubt at about 1/2 lb less per wheel and 2.25" from the center that the they'd make any difference)

The brake rotor seems to be a fair chunk of metal that is at least further out and heavier than lug nuts.

Fantasizing, maybe there exist some carbon ceramic type of rotor our there that's only 1/2 of what our steel rotors weigh.
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Old August 30th, 2004, 11:57 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipribadi
We're down to having high perf lug nuts aren't we? ( I seriously doubt at about 1/2 lb less per wheel and 2.25" from the center that the they'd make any difference)
He was joking.
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