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Old November 7th, 2004, 11:16 PM  
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300whp N/A ?

Hey guys, so with the impending release of the Unichip, I have to wonder: Would 300whp be possible without a supercharger? Here's what I'm thinking:


CAI - 8whp (from member estimates)
catback - 8whp (from member estimates)
93 octane - 10bhp (6whp?, 8?)
Unichip - 20whp(based off of numbers from 6th gen)

So if you started with an average 205whp, that would put you at about 249 or so. Do you think that with engine work, port polish that sort of thing, and maybe extrude-hone intake manifold it would be possible to hit 300?

I'm sure SteVTEC will tell me that my numbers are completely wrong, and he's probably right.

Also, is that extrude-hone process any good, or does it just sound cool?
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Old November 7th, 2004, 11:31 PM  
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You could include the V6P grounding kit or the Apexi Super Ground System which add a few horses. Every little helps if your going for 300 hp. You can also see if you could get your throttle body bored out if that is even possible. Not sure how thick the walls are on the throttle body. Anyone have any known facts about this?
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Old November 7th, 2004, 11:32 PM  
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How exactly does the grounding kits work anyways? I still can't figure that one out.
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Old November 7th, 2004, 11:35 PM  
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60 hp is a lot to make from little things like bolt ons. you're definitely going to take apart the engine for that kind of power. think hi-comp pistons, big cams, and more extreme things like that.
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Old November 7th, 2004, 11:37 PM  
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93 octane?? what is that???

and 8hp off a cat-back, not too sure about that..

but 300 sounds real good if u can get it
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Old November 7th, 2004, 11:50 PM  
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That'll be a strech. I think the 8whp exhaust estimate is based off of Comptech (I'm so close to getting it). That Unichip estimate looks optimistic. Ofcourse I'm babbling since it hasn't even finished development....haha. Just get the s/c when it comes out.
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Old November 8th, 2004, 08:57 AM  
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Yeah, I was thinking engine work to get up to 300, but all the bolt ons certainly get a good head start. I came across www.accordperformance.com, and while I don't know if their work is any good, they claim about 45 whp from their head package. With all that (plus the V6P grounding kit, forgot that), it sounds like it might be possible. I'm not a super car guy though, so I can't say for sure. Would be cool though!

Oh, and 93 octane is the sweet nectar we get here in texas. mmmmm
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Old November 8th, 2004, 08:59 AM  
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We have 93 octane here in AL as well. If you do decide to get headwork, go to some place with a proven track record. I knew a guy with a Prelude Type SH and he had a port and polish done cheap and his car ran like absolulte crap from than on.
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Old November 8th, 2004, 09:06 AM  
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Oh yeah, no way I'd mail my head off somewhere, LOL. But it'd be cool to do I think, at the right place. Probably be a bit cheaper than a s/c too huh?
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Old November 8th, 2004, 09:22 AM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerMouse
Hey guys, so with the impending release of the Unichip, I have to wonder: Would 300whp be possible without a supercharger? Here's what I'm thinking:


CAI - 8whp (from member estimates)
The question that I hav never seen authoritatively answered is how much the CAI would help on a MT. I have heard that the airbox and intake for the MT differ a lot from the auto's. It makes me think that the HP gain numbers that folks have been claiming are more relevant to autos than MTs. The pipe for the MT already looks a bit like a CAI. It seems to be pulling air from the left fenderwell, with a good straight pipe.

I've been thinking of a P&P job as well. Lots of valves there to deburr.

Somebody needs to be the guinea pig here
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Old November 8th, 2004, 09:33 AM  
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There was a thread some time ago with a guy that dynoed with and without a AEM V2. I think it was like a 10whp gain.
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Old November 8th, 2004, 10:04 AM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolhaus
The question that I hav never seen authoritatively answered is how much the CAI would help on a MT.
That has been pretty authoritatively answered by stoner.

14.46 stock
14.23 AEM V2

Conditions may have varied and I know we now have a 14.2 stock car (factory freak or just absolutely perfect conditions or both?) but for stoner to have improved over two tenths that the intake accounts for is highly unlikely. I'm going to try and run my car again this year (two weekends from now hopefully) and I ran a 14.46 with only a shift adapter and now I have only the AEM V2 so hopefully I'll be more proof as well.

I have a feeling my car could run a mid/high 14.3 with more experience. With the intake I'm hoping to run a 14.2, but I am relying on the crappy OEM tires to do their job and adding more power to a traction limited car isn't going to net a huge gain... maybe I should just aim for trapping at 100+
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Old November 8th, 2004, 11:20 AM  
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Yeah, with this cool weather, your trap speeds with go up. Mine in high 40s weather was 99 mph stock.
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Old November 8th, 2004, 12:08 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoner
How exactly does the grounding kits work anyways? I still can't figure that one out.
Basically your car's ECU sends electrical signals to the sensors on your car. When the signal is sent out there is already a charger on your car as a result of a poor grounding system. As a result the signal that is sent out to the sensors is slightly modified. Then the signal is read and sent back well this signal is modified again on its way back to the ECU so the ECU gets a different reading the what is really going on with the air, fuel,... Also when the ECU sends out signals to the engine and other things the signal is modified. Another words what is being said by the ECU and read by the ECU arenít exactly what is being said or read. When you put in a ground wire kit it removes the extra electrical signal so the signals from the ECU from and to the car are clear so the car can operate properly.

-Garrett
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Old November 8th, 2004, 12:12 PM  
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I think you could get close to 300 flywheel hp... 300 whp is going to be hard. I mean look at the 6th Gen Accord which is rated at 200hp, with all the bolt on mods and lots of tuning most people are only able to get it up to about 200whp...
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Old November 8th, 2004, 02:25 PM  
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yeah. i agree with Garrett here... i bet you could get to 300 Flywheel... but 300 Wheels would be real hard... you would have to do a whole bunch of internal work in order for you to get up to a level like that. but if you did. that would be awesome!
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Old November 8th, 2004, 02:35 PM  
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I agree that 300 hp shouldn't be too far out of the question. But making 300 at the wheels is a different story. 300 hp is really only 240-260 max to the ground. And making 300 at the wheels would take over 350 hp. So a supercharger is only the beginning to that mess. You will need a new tranny in no time. Simple bolt-ons for this car here. Supercharger is the shizzle, but not worth the money/investment/priority for me. My next car however will be where the money goes. Something worth dropping the money into. That's my $0.02. But if you wanted that much power you would be looking at doing a lot to your car, and unless you did a lot of other stuff like suspension, brakes, tires, bologna, you will not have a reliable safe car. Something that couldn't stop or handle 300whp is gunna go down the tubes. Too much money/time/power into a car not worth the time/money/power. I think too much money would have to be spent into a car that shoudn't really isn't designed to be making close to 400 hp.
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Old November 8th, 2004, 03:27 PM  
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What are you going to use this car for anyways? Drag? auto-x? Daily driving? I don't see how N/A would be any different from supercharging considering that both have no lag like turbo. Besides that fact that it's more reliable then FI. But with that high of compression it's pretty questionable whether N/A would still be reliable?

It would cost you alot of money to go N/A. Considering that av6 isn't a big market for parts alot of things will have to be custom made.
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Old November 8th, 2004, 03:56 PM  
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You cant add gains like that. Just cause say your AEM V2 gives you 8whp, adding an exhaust that claims to give you another 8whp doesnt mean you're getting 16whp in total. Stuff doesn't add up like that. Cat-back exhaust might take some of that low-end power away that maybe your AEM V2 made and you might gain only 2-3whp up top.
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Old November 8th, 2004, 03:59 PM  
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Primarily I want this car to be a reliable daily driver, kind of at the far end of performance for a daily driver. Now that I think about it you guys may be right, 300whp might be a lofty goal.

Not interested in a supercharger, I kind of want to keep things simple. So I guess we'll see what I can do with bolt ons, and maybe simple engine stuff. Although I don't know what separates simple and complex when it comes to the engine guts. Unichip here I come!
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Old November 8th, 2004, 04:15 PM  
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I think its very possible to get 300 hp at the crank na
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Old November 8th, 2004, 04:25 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackV62K2
You cant add gains like that. Just cause say your AEM V2 gives you 8whp, adding an exhaust that claims to give you another 8whp doesnt mean you're getting 16whp in total. Stuff doesn't add up like that. Cat-back exhaust might take some of that low-end power away that maybe your AEM V2 made and you might gain only 2-3whp up top.

Ah, see that's what I was wondering, I was afraid I was making it to simple. Well I guess we'll see what we can do with it once we get started. That's after the thing gets out of the shop

So, other questions:

Anyone know anything about extrude-hone http://www.extrudehone.com?
Anyone know about Sync's question of a bored throttle body?
Anyone know any good accord experienced machine shops in Houston, TX?

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Old November 8th, 2004, 06:27 PM  
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300 hp is gona be mad hard and expensive, just get a s/c cuase ur probably gona spend more to get the car to 300 whp n/a .... its an accord after alll.

i plann on doing this too, but i gona try to get arround 260 whp and put a 75shot with some DRs and call it a nite, thats break into 12 sec accord

like someone said earlier, if u wanna go fast this aint the car for you, but if u want it fast thats gona be alot of $$ that be pretty pimp and unique too
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Old November 8th, 2004, 07:34 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerMouse
Primarily I want this car to be a reliable daily driver, kind of at the far end of performance for a daily driver. Now that I think about it you guys may be right, 300whp might be a lofty goal.

Not interested in a supercharger, I kind of want to keep things simple. So I guess we'll see what I can do with bolt ons, and maybe simple engine stuff. Although I don't know what separates simple and complex when it comes to the engine guts. Unichip here I come!
i dont know if 300 NA would be simple. i would have to see gains from the 7th gen unichip in order for me to gauge this though...but if you are looking into this, get the Unichip when it becomes available, it will only help you in your cause.

and blackv62k2 is right, mods, despite what some retailers claim, dont stack. some improve upon others, but dont expect doubling your gains with an intake and an exhaust setup.
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Old November 8th, 2004, 08:09 PM  
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good discussion guys..

(don't mind me.. i am just trying to whore another post.. )
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Old November 8th, 2004, 09:44 PM  
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i think 300 at Crank is very possible, 300 at Wheels is ver difficult.
lets see, imma be stingy with these:
pulley - 10hp
intake - 5
headers - 5
exhaust - 5
cams - 10
heads - 5
spark plugs - 2
pistons - 5
unichip - 10
thorttle body - 3
manifold - 5

total - 65 hp
crank - 200hp
265hp so far
now these are being stingy with 87 octane.
that 65 is more like at wheels hp. cuz most of that is very close to whp!!
so i'm thinking u should be close, i hope.
hope that helps
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Old November 8th, 2004, 10:17 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acccccrd
i think 300 at Crank is very possible, 300 at Wheels is ver difficult.
lets see, imma be stingy with these:
pulley - 10hp
intake - 5
headers - 5
exhaust - 5
cams - 10
heads - 5
spark plugs - 2
pistons - 5
unichip - 10
thorttle body - 3
manifold - 5

total - 65 hp
crank - 200hp
265hp so far
now these are being stingy with 87 octane.
that 65 is more like at wheels hp. cuz most of that is very close to whp!!
so i'm thinking u should be close, i hope.
hope that helps
1. as someone mentioned- you can't just add gains like that
2. the 7th gen accord has 240 at the crank (250-260 with premium) not 200
3. 300 whp is a lot to shoot for- that's adding ~90 whp or ~115 crank HP. You're going to need an engine swap or some mad crazy engine work, like someone else said, just go with the supercharger- it'll be far cheaper
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Old November 8th, 2004, 10:20 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acccccrd
i think 300 at Crank is very possible, 300 at Wheels is ver difficult.
lets see, imma be stingy with these:
pulley - 10hp
intake - 5
headers - 5
exhaust - 5
cams - 10
heads - 5
spark plugs - 2
pistons - 5
unichip - 10
thorttle body - 3
manifold - 5

total - 65 hp
crank - 200hp
265hp so far
now these are being stingy with 87 octane.
that 65 is more like at wheels hp. cuz most of that is very close to whp!!
so i'm thinking u should be close, i hope.
hope that helps
captal said it well...

but as for your unichip numbers, a Unichip is the one place where the more mods you have, the more power it should make....(im right....am i right guys...?) i hope im right...
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Old November 8th, 2004, 11:56 PM  
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lol
woops. i thought this was for the 6th gen av6 d'oh!!
well the gains shouldnt be that far apart then wat i stated right??
give or take 2-5hp
but 300whp like i said is very very difficult and if u got the money then u can absouletly have it, maybe even more!! 300 at crank u should be able to have with those mods. with 91 octane and those mods u should be able to have 300 at crank. now for the rest of us. sell this car and get the new stang gt. 300hp for only 25k!!
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Old November 9th, 2004, 01:30 AM  
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I sure wish we could have 300 whp! Now that would be something!!!
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