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Old May 29th, 2005, 04:55 AM   #1
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87 vs 91 or higher for v6 final proof!

OK, I'm new but I searched here and all over the web and might call honda after the holiday weekend. question is about all i have read about the 10 hp/10ft lbs increase in the accord v6 when using 91 or higher over the recomended 87 that a Honda engineer was suppossed to have stated. i have also read that if you use 91 or higher in a car that recomends 87, if it dosen't need it it will produce more carbon buildup. So my main question is, Does any one have proof of this statement from the honda engineer? and is it true about the performance gains, I don't want to spend the extra, get no performance benefits and more carbon buildup. so let's all put our heads together, do some research and settle this rumor for good, thanks. 87 or 93 that is thy question
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Old May 29th, 2005, 06:48 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fast4u99
ok let us no when you do 2 dyno runs one on 87 octain and the other on 93. Also make sure you reset your ecu before the dyno to get the best map. Also make sure you have no 87 octain in your tank when using 93.

LOL
LOL? what's so funny? I'm not dynoing it, I just want to know if a honda engineer stated this or not and proof. I'm running 87 since that's what is says in the manual, but if a honda engineer did in fact state that the car will get 10hp/10ft lbs than i will run 93. and maybe everyone should to get the most from the car. i don't really believe this, but if a honda engineer did indeed state this than I'll have to belive it and give it a try. Don't waste time and make this thread 9 miles long with jokes and stuff not pertaing to the main question.
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Old May 29th, 2005, 06:59 AM   #3
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I don't think he is making a joke.. The only way to get proof is to dyno it....Seems logical to me, I wouldn't believe any of the engineers, they do everything on a computer, not real world...

just my .02
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Old May 29th, 2005, 08:11 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocwill1
I don't think he is making a joke.. The only way to get proof is to dyno it....Seems logical to me, I wouldn't believe any of the engineers, they do everything on a computer, not real world...

just my .02

I believe that since honda made the car, if a honda engineer stated it than it's true but i want proof that he/honda stated this. some guy was supposed to dyno in another thread but i don't think he ever did.
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Old May 29th, 2005, 09:39 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fast4u99
i do kinda feel some HP increase when using 93 octain. I would say its like 2-4 HP increase instead of 10HP and there is no way in hell that we see a 10lb torque increase, more like 2lb torque lol

that's cool, but did a engineer for honda or honda itself actually state it? I need proof not heresay before i switch to 93. thanks
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Old May 29th, 2005, 10:21 AM   #6
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i asked the tech at local honda dealership and he said that the accord does not benifit from using 93. He did say that some other honda models do but not the 7gen AV6. I also heard a lot of he-say-she-say on this forum and nobody ever got any real proof.
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Old May 29th, 2005, 01:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logonzojls
i asked the tech at local honda dealership and he said that the accord does not benifit from using 93. He did say that some other honda models do but not the 7gen AV6. I also heard a lot of he-say-she-say on this forum and nobody ever got any real proof.
Now see i heard the total opposite, a tech told me the higher octane responds to the 7th gen only and not the other models. So i used 91 octane all the time, but as far as in gains, not there.....and you aint seeing 10hp or 10tq with the kind of gas, maybe putting in a CAI ill believe those gains. Theres been threads about this before, so to close this subject, and find out what 91-93 gas really does, Dyno it!
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Old May 29th, 2005, 02:28 PM   #8
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just use 87...gas prices these days are ridiculous
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Old May 29th, 2005, 03:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkim83
just use 87...gas prices these days are ridiculous
ya i know, gas prices suck! how much you guy's payin over on the west coast, ours just went down to $1.99 for the (not so) cheap stuff
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Old May 29th, 2005, 03:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wicked400ex
ya i know, gas prices suck! how much you guy's payin over on the west coast, ours just went down to $1.99 for the (not so) cheap stuff
u guys are so lucky the cheapest around here is $2.29
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Old May 29th, 2005, 03:37 PM   #11
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Here is proof that the comment was made by a Honda engineer. V-6 engineer Asaki was the person that made the 10hp/10tq comment.

Look under the Powertrain section about half way down the page. There's also a statement under Engines in the green box titled Accord vs Camry.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...1-accord_x.htm

Still, the only way to prove this is to do a before and after dyno using 87 and 91+ octane.
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Old May 29th, 2005, 04:44 PM   #12
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Get an ODBII scanner and monitor ignition advance under load, and make some freeway runs
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Old May 29th, 2005, 05:14 PM   #13
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yeah its around $2.30 cents a gallon....its actually going down little by little but i have a feeling its gonna jump again
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Old May 29th, 2005, 05:39 PM   #14
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you dont need to have a feeling. all you have to do is monitor oil prices. the shock is felt 2 weeks later at the gas pump. as of friday oil was over 51 a barrel.
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Old May 29th, 2005, 06:22 PM   #15
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From what I remember the engine has a knock sensor on it allowing it to be tuned for 91 octane gas but putting lower octane gas will change the timing allowing it to be safe. Maybe honda marketed it as a regular fuel 240hp engine to get the more mainstream buyers, especially with the gasoline prices going up.

I used premium for a while then switched to regular because of the gas prices and my car felt like it was slow/lagging. When I put a tank of premium in the other day it felt more responsive. I think I'll spend the extra $1.40 to $2.00 for a full tank of premium.
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Old May 29th, 2005, 07:16 PM   #16
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i have not noticed a tangable performance difference between regular and premium. i have noticed better mileage with higher octanes though...enough to make it worth the extra octane on road trips...makes it easy to get 400-450+ miles on a tank. when prices go down below $2 for reg. I will sometimes put in premium for a couple tanks...paid 2.01 for premium today (reg 1.87). i dont notice a mileage difference in regular day to day driving because i tend to drive harder... on the highway though its definetly worth it.
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Old May 29th, 2005, 08:06 PM   #17
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thanks guy's you really came through, murphman331 you got what I wanted, an actual copy of the usa today paper where it stated a honda engineer said we'd gain 10hp & 10+tq with premium. we'll i'm sold on premium maybe we should all use it, since we blow all kind of money on the car and every other mod anyway! see ya guys around, thanks again for being polite and helpfull!, later, John
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Old May 30th, 2005, 07:56 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazybum
From what I remember the engine has a knock sensor on it allowing it to be tuned for 91 octane gas but putting lower octane gas will change the timing allowing it to be safe. Maybe honda marketed it as a regular fuel 240hp engine to get the more mainstream buyers, especially with the gasoline prices going up.

I used premium for a while then switched to regular because of the gas prices and my car felt like it was slow/lagging. When I put a tank of premium in the other day it felt more responsive. I think I'll spend the extra $1.40 to $2.00 for a full tank of premium.
As stated before many times, it takes 1+ tanks for the computer to adjust to the premium fuel...
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Old May 31st, 2005, 10:00 PM   #19
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If using premium bumps up the timing we should see a corresponding rise in our MPG. Can any one testify to getting better mileage on a regular basis using premium? I know acb384 said he got better MPG. How much more would you say you have gotten?
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Old May 31st, 2005, 10:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTEC-v6!
Get an ODBII scanner and monitor ignition advance under load, and make some freeway runs


I have the OBD II scanner, but no 7th gen AV6 test subject .

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fast4u99
i do kinda feel some HP increase when using 93 octain. I would say its like 2-4 HP increase instead of 10HP and there is no way in hell that we see a 10lb torque increase, more like 2lb torque lol
You can feel a 2-4 HP increase? That's one sensitive butt dyno my friend .



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Old May 31st, 2005, 10:52 PM   #21
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i only noticed a .5-1.3 hp increase from what i could feel.
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Old May 31st, 2005, 10:56 PM   #22
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Old May 31st, 2005, 11:00 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingof3rdinput
i only noticed a .5-1.3 hp increase from what i could feel.




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Old May 31st, 2005, 11:09 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plumaccordcoupe


I have the OBD II scanner, but no 7th gen AV6 test subject .
I have an OBD II scanner and 7th gen, but I don't care about this enough to test it

I would still use regular.
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Old May 31st, 2005, 11:16 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willshire
I have an OBD II scanner and 7th gen, but I don't care about this enough to test it


Just to note, you have the power to finally put this topic to sleep!



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Old June 1st, 2005, 06:54 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Plumaccordcoupe


Just to note, you have the power to finally put this topic to sleep!


Yes... if not for us, do it for the innocent n00bs with their countless threads!!!
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Old June 1st, 2005, 06:56 AM   #27
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This topic is finished, murphman331 put a link to where all this talk started about the gains, which is all I wanted (PROOF) the link to a usa today article where the honda ENGINEER of the v6 (the guy that would know the most about it, because i think honda would test the crap out of an engine a million different ways before releasing it) said it was marketed for 87 but get the 10hp & 10+ft lbs tq when using premium (91-93) so psss on the dyno and what we feel, the man that made the motor said this, iknow i know, sometimes people say stuff to sell something, but come on its a honda, i don't think they have to BS people to sell cars. check out my time slip, that was 87 3/4 tank, i'm almost empty gonna refill 93 wait till empty & go back to the track. my 60 footer's suck!, hard clutch to get used to, did it take any one else awhile to get used to it? where do you guy's shift 6800? that's where i was, i'm gonna try 6300 when i go back since power flatens out ther then drops off anyway. (gotta get to mid 14's before i buy any aftermarket stuff)

Last edited by wicked400ex; June 1st, 2005 at 07:03 AM..
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Old June 1st, 2005, 08:31 AM   #28
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Also if you take a look at the latest Car and Driver (Last Month) in the letters section up front the second question is"I have a 2003 Honda Accord V6 and have heard it gains 10hp and 10tq with premium gas is this true?' The answer from Car and Driver is YES. So there you go the Engineer that designed the engine and Car and Driver. If you don't beleive it don't buy premium but don't expect someone else to pay for the dyno to justify it for you.
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Old June 1st, 2005, 11:27 AM   #29
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Well I just hit the E line so I filled up with15 gal exxon 93, when it hits E again i'm goin to the track, last time 3/4 tank like an idiot, this time EMPTY! (w/93) watch me run out half way down the track! I wonder if my roadside assistance would come hook a brother up! I'm new and I keep hearing about an intake what is it? Sike! hda a 95 probe gt greddy cat back, hot shot CAI test pipe, magnecore wires, rear strut bar, (4 12's, red undercar neon amp cap & cd) later, John
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Old June 1st, 2005, 01:36 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wicked400ex
my 60 footer's suck!
What were your 60 foots?

You're going to need to get 2.2x's ..... low 2.3x's at worst..... in order to run in the 14's, imo.



Quote:
Originally Posted by wicked400ex
where do you guy's shift 6800? that's where i was, i'm gonna try 6300 when i go back since power flatens out ther then drops off anyway. (gotta get to mid 14's before i buy any aftermarket stuff)
I've got a slushy, but still, it's the same engine up at the top of the rev range. (Fyi, the variable intake only makes a difference below about 3000 or 4000 rpm, and even then it's only good for about a tenth or so in the 1/4 mile.) And I disagree with your "power flattens out" statement..... the engine continues to make power all the way up to redline, so your best times are going to come by running up to or as close as possible to redline. That also puts the car in a much better position in the power band in the next gear, versus shifting at 6300 rpm, where it'd be out of vtec range when it gets in the next gear.

Many people have hit mid 14's with their stock 6-speeds..... with a couple of people hitting 14.2 to 14.3's...... stock!



Quote:
Originally Posted by wicked400ex
Well I just hit the E line so I filled up with15 gal exxon 93, when it hits E again i'm goin to the track, last time 3/4 tank like an idiot, this time EMPTY! (w/93)
Nobody knows absolutely for sure, but people say it takes either a tankful of gas or 300 miles of driving for the ecu to fully adjust for the higher octane.
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