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Old May 30th, 2005, 05:22 PM   #1
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removal of all three cats

on another thread we had been talking about removing the cats in the engine bay. today i went down to a local shop and got an estimate for custom downpipes(removal of the cats in the engine bay), j-pipes and true dual exhaust. The shop said that they would charge me 650 for all of this and two flex pipes and also making the flanges to fit the place where the cats go. Now he said the only problem that he would see, is that i would have no back pressure at all and that my car may start to malfunction. Now i know that might be a problem if the o2 sensors start to mess up or read things wrong. Now some one said that the only ones that are important are the one on top of cat. The other two i can buy those things two kill the o2 or to make it think everything is okay. Now i want input from you guys. Also he said that if i have no back pressure i mess up a valve. He said this because that is what happend to one of his clients?!?!?
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Old May 30th, 2005, 05:27 PM   #2
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having no backpressure will mess up the exhaust gases leaving the cylinders. however the best person to talk to this about is sick6speed who has tru duals.
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Old May 30th, 2005, 05:42 PM   #3
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i know on his setup he left the cats in the enigine bay. but then in his video he states that he has a 3 inch downpipe coming out of each bank of cylinders. http://www.v6performance.net/forums/...t=52191&page=1
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First off, I am really happy that all of you like what I have done! I think that it came out great. The craftsmanship is there and the design enginering is there too! I had this done at Labree Motorsports in Canoga Park. They fabricate all kinds of special systems. I have seen some of there work and it always looks amazing. They really put a lot of time and thought in what they do. He came up with the idea of a full true dual exhaust system, because of course I was asking him about making me a custom j-pipe. Of course I agreed on the crazy idea. The install began and it took four days. Let me start off with the cats, the two on the manifolds were left intact. Removing them would cause some CEL's. Which nobody wants. The third one underneath the car with no o2 sensor was ditched. Which I had the high flow one from e-bay. (Hint Hint!) The tubes off each cat on both sides of the v6 are 2.5 inches and they are equal lenth runners to the flex joint. The reason why one is really angled is because the flange off the cat has the studs in a position that will not let you go straight back with the down pipe. There would be no way to get it off and on and it wouldn't be equal length. So he had to make it like the factory angled one which I think came out beautifully. He used flex joints in the system so it would handle all the abuse I could give it. Then ran 2 1/4" inch pipe from the fllex joints down to the resonators and to the exhaust mufflers. It was all ceramic coated as well. Whew! I am running the Tanabe TUN404's for the mufflers and they look and sound real good. As for the sound. I think that it is way to loud but the performance definetly makes up for it! As for the performance gain I am sorry that I didn't do a before and after dyno but I will be doing a tuning session soon with the car and will post it asap. It feels way more responsive in the mid to upper end of the rpm is CRAZY. I did lose a little low end but nothing bad. I am way intrested to in finding out what this car can put down. Oh! as for the price it wasn't to steep, but he is also my buddy so, I got the good buddy discount! It came to 750 with no mufflers. He might kill me for saying this! Anyways i will keep you all updated! Let me know if you have anymore questions??? I will see everybody at the J-town show, Come on evrybody lets GO!
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Old May 30th, 2005, 06:27 PM   #4
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If you put on the O2 eliminators you wont have an engine light. And you are right about the 1st O2 being the only one to adjust the mixture.

As to the backpressure thing, I wouldn't worry about it. If you had 3" from both sides you would notice a decline in torque, but no valve issues. Maybe if you ran open headers, but even then...

I just dont know if it is worth all of the playing around, plus additional noise, cost etc for the couple of extra HP. Try it out and let us know though.
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Old May 30th, 2005, 06:41 PM   #5
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if i start running to rich, couldn't i fix that with a vafc II. I know that i am runnning like 12.5 right now according to my last dyno. But that was with just the cai. http://www.v6performance.net/gallery...cat=500&page=1
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Old May 30th, 2005, 07:08 PM   #6
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also, how much would the o2 eliminators run me?
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Old May 30th, 2005, 07:49 PM   #7
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well i went to a shop and they wanted to charge me 1000 for everything for piping and 2 high flow cat and 2 flex pipe anybody know where they would do it cheaper ??????????
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Old May 31st, 2005, 04:01 PM   #8
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i started searching through the forum and i found this http://www.v6performance.net/forums/...ght=t-man+tman
now i am just waiting on t-man's response to see how big of a pipping he used.
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Old June 1st, 2005, 12:06 AM   #9
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^^^hey, thats the same exact setup i have... kool!
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Old June 1st, 2005, 12:03 PM   #10
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You have to have cats, just think of the trees....

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Old June 1st, 2005, 12:48 PM   #11
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Old June 1st, 2005, 01:43 PM   #12
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haha you can see some visible smoke out my car with the 3rd cat removed...
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Old June 1st, 2005, 02:14 PM   #13
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What color is the smoke? white, black?

And you can even see it yourself when driving?! Or did someone behind you tell you about it?

I've got an ebay 3rd cat test pipe sitting in my garage right now..... just waiting for a chance to put it on.
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Old June 1st, 2005, 04:21 PM   #14
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you have to know someone to get it done....better off trying to get one of the guys to do it for you on their time off under the table or something because most shops are not legally allowed to touch cats....but why doesn't someone do this...since the cat will be replaced by straight pipe and the cat just bolts into the section of pipe...take it off yourself....measure it and take it to a shop and tell them you need a section of pipe to match the length of your cat exactly with the same flanges on both ends...and then they can't say no because they aren't removing anything or putting anything on your car...just making a pipe that same length for you
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Old June 1st, 2005, 07:02 PM   #15
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the flanges are a ***** to get. they are odd shaped.

the smoke is faint and looks more like steam rising off the ground. i noticed it when i was loading stuff into my trunk.
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Old June 1st, 2005, 07:06 PM   #16
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then i would just buy one of those el cheapo high flow cats and cut the flanges off them and have them welded on to a straight pipe...the pipe and weld coulnt cost more than 15-20 bucks so that is all done for like 60-70 bucks...sounds like a worthwhile investment to me
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Old June 1st, 2005, 07:47 PM   #17
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those are some messed up trees. I guess i really don't have to worry about trees in arizona, just the cacti. lol.
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Old June 1st, 2005, 08:03 PM   #18
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What about this...any one try it? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33629
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Old June 1st, 2005, 08:49 PM   #19
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so umm do any of you guys even know what a cat looks like on the inside? cos all the ebay high flow cats dont really do much since they are essentially the same thing as our cats with the exception they may have less netting than the oem cats.

basically the only way to get a gain is the complete removal of that cat with a comparable diamter piping.
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Old June 1st, 2005, 09:07 PM   #20
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the cat looks hella restrictive inside and dark.
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Old June 1st, 2005, 09:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OwAce
so umm do any of you guys even know what a cat looks like on the inside? cos all the ebay high flow cats dont really do much since they are essentially the same thing as our cats with the exception they may have less netting than the oem cats.

basically the only way to get a gain is the complete removal of that cat with a comparable diamter piping.
I figured since it was for "off-road" use only, it was more of just a straight through pipe only. It would be nice to have a direct bolt-in rather than gutting the existing. This way, we can always put the OEM back when we need to.
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Old June 1st, 2005, 09:40 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBig
I figured since it was for "off-road" use only, it was more of just a straight through pipe only. It would be nice to have a direct bolt-in rather than gutting the existing. This way, we can always put the OEM back when we need to.

what you could do is get the ebay cat, gut that one, and effectively have the ebay one work as a gutted cat.
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Old June 1st, 2005, 09:46 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OwAce
what you could do is get the ebay cat, gut that one, and effectively have the ebay one work as a gutted cat.
EXACTLY!!!
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Old June 1st, 2005, 10:10 PM   #24
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so its settled. for all those who want to DIY cat removal. do this.

step 1) buy ebay high flow cat
step 2) after recieveing high flow ebay cat. GUT IT.
step 3) remove oem cat
step 4) insert gutted cat
step 5) pinch nose and live through sulfur smell (if it occurs).

okie dokie.

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Old June 1st, 2005, 11:05 PM   #25
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Some info on the 2003-2005 AV6 exhaust system.

Quote:
High-flow/low-restriction exhaust system cuts back pressure by 30 percent (over pervious AV6)

/\
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\/

Numerous innovative features contribute to the V6 engine's low emissions status, including an advanced fuel injection management system, and unique "unified" exhaust manifold and cylinder head design with close-coupled catalytic converters. This sophisticated system features an ultra-precise linear airflow sensor in addition to a conventional O2 sensor in the secondary under-floor converter. The engine also incorporates an electronic EGR system that helps minimize NOx emissions.

/\
----
\/

High-flow Exhaust System with Close-Coupled Catalyzers
The high efficiency exhaust system incorporates several key elements that work in concert with the engine's uniquely designed cylinder heads to help boost performance, reduce tailpipe emissions and trim weight. Major system components include two close-coupled primary catalytic converters, a secondary underfloor catalytic converter, a centrally positioned, high-flow resonator and dual rear silencers. Integrating the exhaust manifold into the head casting allowed the primary catalytic converters to be mounted directly to the exhaust orifice. This location ensures an extremely rapid light-off for the high-efficiency 900-cell per square inch converters, which directly contributes to the engine's exceptionally low emissions.

A new high flow hydroformed 2-into-1-collector pipe that transfers exhaust gasses to the secondary 350-cell converter also reduces exhaust backpressure. A new design for the silencer further reduces backpressure. The net result is a 30-percent drop in backpressure compared to the previous Accord V6. These improvements account for 15 of the extra 40 horsepower the new V6 develops. Eliminating a flange on the rear portion of the exhaust pipe and adopting a new, more compact design for the rear silencers also trimmed weight from the system. Because these smaller silencers are easier to package, the rear of the new Accord has a more refined appearance.
Or in simpler terms, touch at your own risk .

Quote:
Originally Posted by blu6speed
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Old June 2nd, 2005, 09:12 AM   #26
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ahahhahhaha.. so my guy was right about the flex pipe up. however yeeah for those who just want a 2.5 inch piping back down post flex pipe, that which plum posted doesnt help. as 1.75" piping is definately more restrictive than 2.5". but i will say this, our axle back mufflers rock.
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Old June 2nd, 2005, 09:21 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokin6speed
you have to know someone to get it done....better off trying to get one of the guys to do it for you on their time off under the table or something because most shops are not legally allowed to touch cats....but why doesn't someone do this...since the cat will be replaced by straight pipe and the cat just bolts into the section of pipe...take it off yourself....measure it and take it to a shop and tell them you need a section of pipe to match the length of your cat exactly with the same flanges on both ends...and then they can't say no because they aren't removing anything or putting anything on your car...just making a pipe that same length for you
Just take off you cat and use a shot gun to clear away anything that's restrictive
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Old June 2nd, 2005, 10:58 AM   #28
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lol. i didnt get it made, i got it fitted.

i took it to this muffler guy who i found randomly when i was lost. the guy jacked my car up. took off the cat, and then cut the piping post the premuffler.

he then took 2.25" SS piping and replaced the cat, resonator and premuffler with it. so essentially he replaced all that oem crap post the flex pipe flange till the part where our ypipe starts.
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Old June 2nd, 2005, 01:01 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBig
That's the exact one that I bought...... just haven't put it on yet.

Looks like a good quality piece to me too.




Quote:
Originally Posted by OwAce
so umm do any of you guys even know what a cat looks like on the inside? cos all the ebay high flow cats dont really do much since they are essentially the same thing as our cats with the exception they may have less netting than the oem cats.
Well, my high-flow "cat" (really a test pipe) doesn't look anything like a regular cat inside. See my high tech pic below, using ascii CAD. The high-flow "cat" is completely open (clear all-the-way thru.... nothing in the way) for the length of it, but only at a diameter the same as the inlet and outlet pipes. In the "swelled up" middle section, which is "walled off" by a perforated tube, there is some type of packing between it (the perforated "inside" pipe) and the o.d. of the swelled up part. Looks kinda similar to the old glass packs that were popular in my younger days. So it definately looks to me like it would be more free flowing than the Honda cat (which is supposedly very high flowing itself, but I've only heard that, not seen any data confirming it).

My "high flow" cat below.....
...... ___________
|__/XXXXXXXXXXX\__|
.__ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __
| .. \XXXXXXXXXXX/....|

Key:
Ignore the periods....had to have them to make everything quasi line up. The vertical lines on each end are the flanges. The "X"s are the packing (muffling) material in between the perforated inside pipe and the o.d. of the "swelled" section. Notice that it is open all the way thru the center.


Owned - Apparently I hit some sort of limit for excessive use of quotation marks in a single post. j/k
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Old June 2nd, 2005, 01:29 PM   #30
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lol..that some good work over there. in that case then yeah the ebay cat is higherflowing than our oem cats.
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