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Old November 3rd, 2012, 03:27 PM   #1
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IM Butterfly Delete - P1078

So i got bored and some members on forums convinced me to remove the butterfly plates in my intake manifold. About 10min after driving and testing i got a CEL, great!

P1078 - Intake Mainfold Runner Control (IMRC) System Malfunction (High rpm)

Now as far as i know, most people just remove the 6 screws to get the plates out. I took it a step further: I got out my trust bolt cutter and cut out the metal rod that the plates connect to. I also removed all the hardware from the butterfly plate motor assembly (magnets and various little pieces. The motor is still plugged in. So i put everything back together, and i realize im missing the gasket that goes between the intake manifold and the butterfly motor. Look far and wide, couldn't figure out where it went. Made damn sure it wasnt in the IM. Think it could be a vacuum leak causing the code, or since i removed the metal rod?

Oh BTW, the butt dyno approves of this mod
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 07:58 PM   #2
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For the life of me I don't understand why you'd ever cut things off your motor that you can't put back on.

You have a code? Go figure.
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Old November 4th, 2012, 09:06 AM   #3
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I never really understood why people remove them? I know on one of my past cars removing the butterfly's resulted in loosing low end Tq.
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Old November 4th, 2012, 09:43 AM   #4
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^ sonic has a dyno graph. You gain top end at the expense of low end tq
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Old November 4th, 2012, 12:22 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by pbook4g5 View Post
For the life of me I don't understand why you'd ever cut things off your motor that you can't put back on.

You have a code? Go figure.


how is the idle now? i'd guess the tps can't be too happy after you cut the throttle shaft lol. i'm curious what the reference wire on the tps reads if you backprobe it now....but i guess the dbw/app system is still intact. did you disconnect the battery and do a ckp learn? try clearing the code and doing a relearn
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Old November 4th, 2012, 09:54 PM   #6
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how is the idle now? i'd guess the tps can't be too happy after you cut the throttle shaft lol. i'm curious what the reference wire on the tps reads if you backprobe it now....but i guess the dbw/app system is still intact. did you disconnect the battery and do a ckp learn? try clearing the code and doing a relearn
Not sure what you mean when you talk about TPS sensor... This has nothing to do with the throttle body. This is the butterfly plates in the intake manifold the open up at 4000rpm. It idles like it always has. Im going to do an idle relearn tonight.
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Old November 4th, 2012, 10:20 PM   #7
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Not sure what you mean when you talk about TPS sensor... This has nothing to do with the throttle body. This is the butterfly plates in the intake manifold the open up at 4000rpm. It idles like it always has. Im going to do an idle relearn tonight.
The throttle position sensor is actually on the throttle body:



I was just wondering which sensor is barking about imrc....i have no clue what i'm talking about, just trying to spark some ideas
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Old November 6th, 2012, 08:20 AM   #8
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The throttle position sensor is actually on the throttle body:



I was just wondering which sensor is barking about imrc....i have no clue what i'm talking about, just trying to spark some ideas
It is on the other side of the the intake manifold, directly across from the the TB. It controls the butterfly plates INSIDE the intake manifold. 6-speeds only
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Old November 6th, 2012, 10:02 AM   #9
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Check the link below. The guy replaced his solenoid and said it worked. Not sure what you mean about removing the magnets and other various items from the motor, but that may be your issue. The motor is possibly magnetized? (Total guess here).

P1078 - Intake Manifold Runner Control (IMRC) System Malfunction (High rpm) - Club RSX Message Board
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Old November 6th, 2012, 11:06 AM   #10
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It is on the other side of the the intake manifold, directly across from the the TB. It controls the butterfly plates INSIDE the intake manifold. 6-speeds only
OK OK OK. I understand our miscommunication now.

===> You're talking about the fvcking _bypass valve actuator_ on the 6MT IM.

I thought you meant that you deleted the butterfly/throttle-shaft in the TB.
And YES, the TP sensor _IS_ on the TB (or the wire harness that connects there, rather):



You deleted the bypass valve/actuator on the IM that opens the plenums/runners/whatever when the RPMs increase.

Gotcha

See this thread for more information (won't fix your prob, just more info): MORE POWER... Actuator BYPASS VALVE - AcuraZine Community

Peace. And good luck w that.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 11:18 AM   #11
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sorry for being an idiot btw....i'm new to this sh!t haha.

(and ps: i posted this from 30,000 ft in the air....so i've got time to kill )
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Old November 6th, 2012, 12:02 PM   #12
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Ok, well you asked me to chime in, congrats you just destroyed your intake manifold, now go get another one, yes you can remove the plates with the six screws, but not the rod nor the white platic gear on the end which has a metal plate that the IMRC motor uses as a sensor to check the valve position.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 12:07 PM   #13
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Ok, well you asked me to chime in, congrats you just destroyed your intake manifold, now go get another one, yes you can remove the plates with the six screws, but not the rod nor the white platic gear on the end which has a metal plate that the IMRC motor uses as a sensor to check the valve position.
Great... thats the answer i was looking for. Thanks!
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Old November 6th, 2012, 12:55 PM   #14
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^ Just buy my ported manifold
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Old November 6th, 2012, 01:05 PM   #15
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Lol
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Old November 6th, 2012, 05:58 PM   #16
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^ Just buy my ported manifold
So many things i want! So much money i need!
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Old November 6th, 2012, 08:31 PM   #17
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Never understand the reasoning to delete them. You should not gain anything from removing them because essentially when it is open, it acts like its not even there in the first place. However when its closed you get a substantial increase in low-mid tq due to the excess pressure on each side "charging" the incoming air. This makes the power much more linear. It may feel faster without them but I promise it is not. Its only because you lost the low end grunt and the differnce in power between upper and lower RPMS is more substantial. The power is no longer linear but lagging in low RPM, then picks up when the intake manifold is flowing in its most efficient rpm range (4500+rpm).

Honda would not spend the time and money to develop a system that would make its "enthusiast" model, aka the V6-6 speed, slower. It doesnt make sense. If it was slower you think they would have kept it after testing it?
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Old November 7th, 2012, 03:19 PM   #18
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Never understand the reasoning to delete them. You should not gain anything from removing them because essentially when it is open, it acts like its not even there in the first place. However when its closed you get a substantial increase in low-mid tq due to the excess pressure on each side "charging" the incoming air. This makes the power much more linear. It may feel faster without them but I promise it is not. Its only because you lost the low end grunt and the differnce in power between upper and lower RPMS is more substantial. The power is no longer linear but lagging in low RPM, then picks up when the intake manifold is flowing in its most efficient rpm range (4500+rpm).

Honda would not spend the time and money to develop a system that would make its "enthusiast" model, aka the V6-6 speed, slower. It doesnt make sense. If it was slower you think they would have kept it after testing it?
While all of that makes sense, but Honda could have designed them for fuel efficiency as well...

but you're right with the 1st paragraph.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 03:49 PM   #19
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Never understand the reasoning to delete them. You should not gain anything from removing them because essentially when it is open, it acts like its not even there in the first place. However when its closed you get a substantial increase in low-mid tq due to the excess pressure on each side "charging" the incoming air. This makes the power much more linear. It may feel faster without them but I promise it is not. Its only because you lost the low end grunt and the differnce in power between upper and lower RPMS is more substantial. The power is no longer linear but lagging in low RPM, then picks up when the intake manifold is flowing in its most efficient rpm range (4500+rpm).

Honda would not spend the time and money to develop a system that would make its "enthusiast" model, aka the V6-6 speed, slower. It doesnt make sense. If it was slower you think they would have kept it after testing it?
pbooks makes a good point about fuel economy. Id also like to point out that since the car is a manual transmission, spend more times in lower rpm. If you launch in a manual, you slip the clutch around 1100-1200, then you take that rev range to 2500-3000. While a Automatic you pres the gas and it goes to 2000rpm because of the torque converter, to the next shift point. Think about highway passing too. Automatic just put your foot down to downshift. While a manual if you put your foot down in 6th, it moves decently. This decent acceleration from 6th could be from the torque offered by the butterfly valves. (This is one thing i notice after the delete, passing people in 6th on the highway is not as quick as it used to be)
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Old November 12th, 2012, 04:51 PM   #20
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If it was designed for fuel efficiency it would be on all of the cars, not just the performance model. What would they benefit from making this for the lowest volume seller? As an engineer I can tell you it does not really add mpg. It is more efficient at lower rpm so you can make the argument but at part throttle the difference is miniscule.
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Old December 24th, 2012, 02:41 PM   #21
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Ok, well you asked me to chime in, congrats you just destroyed your intake manifold, now go get another one, yes you can remove the plates with the six screws, but not the rod nor the white platic gear on the end which has a metal plate that the IMRC motor uses as a sensor to check the valve position.
From Honda FSM
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Engine power is achieved by closing and opening the intake manifold tuning (IMT) (intake manifold runner control (IMRC)) actuator. When the valve is closed, there is high torque at low engine speed. When the valve is open, there is high torque at high engine speed.

The intake manifold tuning (IMT) (intake manifold runner control (IMRC)) valve actuator has a sensor that detects the IMT (IMRC) valve position and sends it to the ECM/PCM.

If you are refering to valve position, its simply checking the position of the IMRC valve, not the valves in the head. Just to clarify.
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Old January 7th, 2013, 11:26 AM   #22
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Similar mod on VQ35s, there is actually a block off plate that removes the butterfly valve. Lose about 10 hp/ft-lb from 3200-4200 rpms, gain 10 hp/ft-lb from 4200 rpms to redline. Both 4AT and 6MT cars have them in the Maxima. Worthwhile mod, once you get through 1st gear at full throttle, you are pretty much above 4200 after upshifts anyway. Even though the valve opens up at higher rpms, its physical size is detrimental to airflow.

Probably used on the 6MT Accords because when you are just putting around in traffic and upshifting at 3000 rpms, it makes the car feel more powerful and responsive.
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