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Old June 8th, 2005, 12:17 PM   #1
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H-tech (low spring rate) owners...help with body lean

did you add shocks too? I have a lot of body lean still even with h-tech and 20mm sway bars when I take curves. I would like to stop more roll. Are new shocks going to help with this?
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Old June 9th, 2005, 12:08 AM   #2
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Your answer is rear CAMBER KIT. I just installed them last week and the handling is now AMAZING with my HFP. Set to -0.75. If you already have them...then i dunno..hehe
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Old June 9th, 2005, 03:03 AM   #3
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I don't understand why some people would get rears only.
I've seen this alot, so Im not criticizing you, mog.
I just want to know why people do that.. never got chance to ask 'em.
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Old June 9th, 2005, 06:16 AM   #4
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lol

A camber kit is not going to affect body roll.

Shocks will help a little, but the limiting factor in your situation is the htech spring rate. If you're not happy even after going to 20mm sways (assuming you upgraded the front sway bars as well), then new springs are in order.

Last edited by dme330i; June 9th, 2005 at 06:25 AM..
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Old June 9th, 2005, 06:20 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HwaNi.J30A-C
I don't understand why some people would get rears only.
I've seen this alot, so Im not criticizing you, mog.
I just want to know why people do that.. never got chance to ask 'em.
The geometry of the front and rear suspension differ. As the car is lowered, camber is affected at a higher rate in the rear vs. the front. Thus, a 1.5" drop all the way around will put your rear camber out of spec (likely in the -2.2 range) while your front will still be in spec.
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Old June 9th, 2005, 11:43 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dme330i
The geometry of the front and rear suspension differ. As the car is lowered, camber is affected at a higher rate in the rear vs. the front. Thus, a 1.5" drop all the way around will put your rear camber out of spec (likely in the -2.2 range) while your front will still be in spec.
yes dme is correct, rear camber is much closer to limits of allowable neg. camber, whereas the front are fine.

Actually, another good point... I did not do the front sways... but the car is very balanced right now... so I like the front and back sways as-is.

Maybe newer springs are in order... but maybe even BIGGER sways are needed. or maybe a new car.... j/k!
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Old June 9th, 2005, 01:55 PM   #7
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I chose to go H.Tech/Koni Sport w/ TL Rear Sway. I am very pleased with the results. By next weekend my wheels and tires shall be on, so I'm interested to see what the new limiting factor will be (the tires currently are the weakest link). I dont believe an even bigger sway will really do much more for you. Check out some decent springs, I think you'll be happy.
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Old June 9th, 2005, 01:59 PM   #8
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I had Comptech springs/stock shocks/Comptech rear sway/SPC rear carmber adjuster before. Then I switched to Koni Yellows and the transformation was amazing! The Koni's are some badazz shocks!
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Old June 9th, 2005, 03:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dme330i
The geometry of the front and rear suspension differ. As the car is lowered, camber is affected at a higher rate in the rear vs. the front. Thus, a 1.5" drop all the way around will put your rear camber out of spec (likely in the -2.2 range) while your front will still be in spec.
So I understand how rear camber will be worse when vehicle is dropped all around..

Bad Camber can translate into less contact patch of the tires to the ground.
so, there is less contact patch in the rear, less traction.

Wouldn't it be better if you have more traction in the front, and maybe
slightly less in the rear, so front gets more grip and rear might get a bit of
slide, which could cause neutral handling or maybe even slight oversteer..
FWD vehicles have alot of understeer, so this could be good, won't it?

I understand people fixing the rear first where the worse camber is,
but wouldn't getting front camber fixed be better for handling wise?

I am also debating whether I should get front or rear camber kit..
Wish I can go both, but im broke as hell. this sh1t is confusing.
no one really had definite answer to it when I asked in prelude forums.. sigh.
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Old June 10th, 2005, 07:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
So I understand how rear camber will be worse when vehicle is dropped all around..

Bad Camber can translate into less contact patch of the tires to the ground.
so, there is less contact patch in the rear, less traction.
Yes, bad camber translates into less traction. What's the definition of bad? It depends on what you're doing. In track situations, it wouldn't be uncommon to run -2 degrees of negative camber to enhance traction in corners. There's actually a better contact patch in these situations due to body roll in high speed corners.

In real world driving, -2 is excessive and will just cause increased and uneven tire wear.

Quote:
Wouldn't it be better if you have more traction in the front, and maybe
slightly less in the rear, so front gets more grip and rear might get a bit of
slide, which could cause neutral handling or maybe even slight oversteer..
FWD vehicles have alot of understeer, so this could be good, won't it?
This is tough in FWD cars. They're already front heavy, so traction, in general is good up front, but they have a tendency to understeer (ironic huh). From a performance perspective, FWD is a major disadvantage due to the dynamics (e.g., when you accelerate aggresively, weight transfers away from your drive wheels). One way to reduce understeer is by stiffening the rear suspension (sway bars, springs). This prevents weight transfer to the rear and actually places more "weight" up front (confirmed via chassis dyno).

While this may be good in track situations, in the real world in can be dangerous with inexperienced drivers. At the upper limit of cornering, your rear end can break loose with less predictability. In fact, you've probably hear a few stories of people losing it in a high speed turn after upgrading their rear sway bar only - our cars are already front heavy, now you've added more "weight" to the front.

In short, FWD is not fun - and I don't like it.

Last edited by dme330i; June 10th, 2005 at 07:47 AM..
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Old June 20th, 2005, 10:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dme330i
In short, FWD is not fun - and I don't like it.


I have an Accord V6 lowered on H.Techs and brand new Falken tires. It handles a whole lot better than when it was stock, but you still have the FWD feeling. I also drive a stock '04 525i and, although it's not nearly as quick as the Accord, it's more enjoyable to drive because of the way it sticks to the road. No torque steer is good too.
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