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Old March 15th, 2007, 03:50 PM   #1
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For those with handling problems

I finally got my handling problems corrected with the last alignment that was done. I've had about 30 alignments done to my car over the past 3 years at so many different places. Before i was just letting the place align it within tolerance. That doesnt work. This time I told them to align my car as close to these values while keeping the thrust angle 0.

Front Toe-in +1mm
Rear Toe-in +2mm
Rear Camber -1.5

(1mm=0.04", 2mm=0.08" usually the alignment paper is shown in inch)

Car is alot easier to drive now and tracks the road many times better than before. I tried 0mm Front Toe with -1.0 rear camber and that was pretty bad. We need at least -1.5 rear camber I believe otherwise the car will be not ease into turns. Maybe you guys can chime in if you think other combinations of the alignment numbers will improve handling some more. I might try putting some more front toe in to +2mm. I dunno if that will increase the tire wear significantly though. Or setting the rear camber to -2.0.

Last edited by mog; March 15th, 2007 at 03:55 PM..
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Old March 20th, 2007, 05:47 AM   #2
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the thing about handling specs is that it all depends on the driver, the driving style, and handling preference. an obviously missing element on your spec sheet is the front camber. the amount of front camber will determine how much under/over steer you have relative to your rear camber. and you haven't mentioned your brand of tires, shocks, springs, size of tire, sways, and air pressure. and what do you mean with your previous setup it was "pretty bad"? understeer? not enough turn in? what about this setup that you like so much? so what's your setup?
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Old March 20th, 2007, 10:35 PM   #3
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TL wheels(30psi), HFP suspension, Neuspeed front sway bar, Comptech 22m rear sway bar, Neuspeed strut tower, rear ingalls camber kit. I dunno if it has oversteer or understeer but the car used to wander all over when driving straight. Now it tracks alot better and turning is more effortless(better steering wheel return). Where do you live in socal?
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Old March 21st, 2007, 10:59 AM   #4
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west la. i used to auto-x a little bit and know a little bit about suspension setup. if it was wandering while straight it could have been anything from a lose bolt to the toe being off or the wheels being not balanced correctly. But i'm glad to hear ur liking your setup now, it's hard to get suspension components to where you really like it to be. =)
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Old March 21st, 2007, 11:05 AM   #5
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Front Toe-in +1mm
Rear Toe-in +2mm
Rear Camber -1.5

(1mm=0.04", 2mm=0.08" usually the alignment paper is shown in inch)

does this setting affect tire wear at all? or no
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Old March 21st, 2007, 11:14 AM   #6
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i would think that 2mm toe in would affect tire wear more than zero toe. However, honda has a vary wide range of "acceptable" alignment settings, and i'm pretty sure all of those settings fall within that category of acceptable. so yea, it does it up more tire than zero toe, but no, i don't think the wear will be significant.

if one has harder wheels, then tire wear isn't THAT big of an issue. personally if you're really happy w/ the setup of the car then it's worth a little extra in getting some more tires.
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Old March 21st, 2007, 11:21 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droopy
i would think that 2mm toe in would affect tire wear more than zero toe. However, honda has a vary wide range of "acceptable" alignment settings, and i'm pretty sure all of those settings fall within that category of acceptable. so yea, it does it up more tire than zero toe, but no, i don't think the wear will be significant.

if one has harder wheels, then tire wear isn't THAT big of an issue. personally if you're really happy w/ the setup of the car then it's worth a little extra in getting some more tires.
i'll try this setup on my next alligment
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Old March 21st, 2007, 11:25 AM   #8
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again, it depends on your setup. personally i would rather have zero toe up front, 1mm to 2 mm toe OUT in the back, and 1 to 1.5 camber in the front and rear. this will liven up the car and make it a bit more rear happy than stock. =)
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Old March 21st, 2007, 11:33 AM   #9
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how much money has 30 alignments run you? lol
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Old March 21st, 2007, 11:34 AM   #10
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I have tl 22mm sway neuspeed race springs hfp shocks ingall rear camber stock alligment in the front 0 camber in the rear not sure of the toe

Last edited by hondaism; March 21st, 2007 at 11:58 AM..
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Old March 21st, 2007, 11:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
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how much money has 30 alignments run you? lol
hahaha... i'm only on my third car, and yea, 30 sounds about how many times i've gotten alignments. at 80 to 100 bux a pop? you do the math...

i know some people that get it done professionally by hand (there's about two that i know about who do this in so cal) and they charge easily double that. but from what i hear, the best way to go if you want perfect alignment. i wouldn't recommend it unless you track your car tho.
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Old March 21st, 2007, 11:46 AM   #12
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tl sways only on the rear and zero camber rear? that should promote some more over steer than most cars... like i said before, there is no "one setup" that everyone should use. if you don't like ur current setup, then rather post what you don't like about it and there may be ways to change the alignment to fix that. too much understeer/oversteer not enough turn in, etc.

if you want to learn more about alignment and how it affects your car, read this article. whiteline is a great company out in australia who know their stuff. and i'd ignore the caster section, our car's caster is not adjustable.

http://www.whiteline.com.au/default..../faqsusp01.htm
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Old March 21st, 2007, 11:57 AM   #13
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I want the car to handel at its best with out eating up tires with the setup I have, what would be a good adjustment to go with? -1 in the front -1 in the rear?
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Old March 21st, 2007, 12:09 PM   #14
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"handle at its best" is purely subjective. as a street car and a track car have vastly different setups, i don't know what you want out of your car.

if you REALLY want good alignment, i'd start out by getting zero toe all around (to eat up tires the least) with -1 camber front and rear. and make sure you have proper tire pressure (shops will overinflate because they're idiots.) if this is too rear happy for you, toe in on the rear slightly and increase rear camber. if it's not rear happy enough, then toe out and reduce rear camber.

since you're in florida, can't recommend shops from so cal. but be aware that the majority of alignment shops will NOT touch lowered vehicles, or will not follow your customized settings as they will say void warantee and what not. so ask around and find the right alignment shop to do the job. before anyone asks, i found stokes tires in west LA to be superb when in comes to alignments and they know what they're doing. if i'm stuck in OC then i go to super autobacs since they don't give me crap for being lowered and having custom suspension (usually).

hope that helped.
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Old March 21st, 2007, 12:51 PM   #15
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ok i'll do that -1f -1r and 0 toe to start and see how she feels, most shops here will do what you ask them to do. thanks for the advice.
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Old March 21st, 2007, 01:14 PM   #16
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oh, and if you like the take the corners every once in a while (auto-x? canyon?) then i'd go w/ 1.5 up front. it's off stock specs and u will get camber wear, but it will handle much better when cornering. also, camber front > camber back = over steering characteristics.
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Old March 23rd, 2007, 11:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droopy
west la. i used to auto-x a little bit and know a little bit about suspension setup. if it was wandering while straight it could have been anything from a lose bolt to the toe being off or the wheels being not balanced correctly. But i'm glad to hear ur liking your setup now, it's hard to get suspension components to where you really like it to be. =)
Thanks. I still think it can be better but i'm afraid of messing around with it for now. I've aligned my car at Just tires, Big-o tires, Bear frame and wheel( they do it old school with rulers and bubble gauges), finally got the Firestone lifetime alignment. I went to several different firestone locations so they wont be su****ious as to why i'm coming back all the time. Anyways ever since the front subframe was loosened to install the front sway bar the car never felt the same. I've tried tinkering with the subframe back and forth but that didnt fix it.
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Old March 24th, 2007, 05:03 PM   #18
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it could be that the sway bar was misdesigned for the car and it's tensioning and loosening the weight transfers all off. have you considered going back to stock and see how that feels? might make the difference, but it's your call. and yea, hard to find a decent alignment place...
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Old March 24th, 2007, 06:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droopy
it could be that the sway bar was misdesigned for the car and it's tensioning and loosening the weight transfers all off. have you considered going back to stock and see how that feels? might make the difference, but it's your call. and yea, hard to find a decent alignment place...
I'm sure you're right about that. All the different parts i slapped on together they prolly dont work optimal together. Its too much trouble to switch the front sway bar again. I think I will just wait to buy a new car that's tuned properly out of the box.
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