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Old September 7th, 2016, 02:25 PM   #1
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Piece of spark plug fell into the cylinder

Hey guys, seeking some advise.
It's been about 6 months or so since i bought and drove my 06 v6 6mt everyday. Ran smooth, no issue until recently when check engine popped. There was no symptom at all except the day i was bring it in. The was running slightly rough. I initially thought it might be an o2 sensor but it ended up being a misfire in cylinder 5.
My mechanic thinks coil is bad so i told him go ahead and change all coils. A day after he sent me a picture of a broken plug(missing part of ceramic and bit of the angled pin(?) at the end). He tells me it was already broken when he pulled it out. Fine. I told him to find a way to retrieve the missing pieces in the cylinder. I suggested him to get a borescope and inspect, then maybe use a strong shop vaccuum to suck out all the debris.
A week later, he tells me he changed the coils and im having misfire on all cylinder. Still wasnt able to clean the fallen debris in the cylinder. Didnt check with camera, and continues to tell me there is no way. He suggests that the only way to check is to open the head. I asked him if he tried he vaccuum method but he said no but says he tried to suck it out the valve by compression wtv he meant (which i believe is not a bright idea).

So im wondering what sort of damages could the debris have done in the cylinder, and is there any possible effective method beside pulling out the head?

Thanks a bunch for any input

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Old September 7th, 2016, 02:44 PM   #2
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I would suggest you obtain a borescope and confirm the existence of debris. If it exist, I can’t see an easy way to get it out via a vac and something that will properly fit down a spark plug hole as a vac attachment. As for the new coils, did he use OEM, or aftermarket? For the spark plugs, did he replace just the damaged one, or all? What did he use for new plug(s)? The root of the CEL might be the broken plug that is now masked by substandard replacement parts.
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Old September 7th, 2016, 04:30 PM   #3
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I would suggest you obtain a borescope and confirm the existence of debris. If it exist, I canít see an easy way to get it out via a vac and something that will properly fit down a spark plug hole as a vac attachment. As for the new coils, did he use OEM, or aftermarket? For the spark plugs, did he replace just the damaged one, or all? What did he use for new plug(s)? The root of the CEL might be the broken plug that is now masked by substandard replacement parts.
Thanks for your input,
I just came back from the garage,

So this is the picture of the plug. Its missing the side electrode and half of the center electrode as well which are probably now in the cylinder 5. Luckily ceramic piece did not fall in.
I tried with borescope but couldnt really see anything but we are 99% sure there are pieces bouncing around the cylinder because of noise.

He said he changed all the plugs new(aftermarket) and ran the engine and he observed that at the start up there are missfire on most or all cylinders and then as the moteur heats up the misfire "diminish" in all cylinders except cylinder 5.

We are hoping that the valve is still intact in cylinder 5. According to him timing might have skipped due to piece being stuck in the valve at some moments which is why all cylinder is having misfire.
I am not 100% convinced of this because like i said i have been riding like this for a while, i didnt really have any issue. Im assuming if the piece is small enough to get stuck in the valve id imagine it that it wouldve happened already and engine wouldve been kaboom.

Im hoping maybe it didnt significantly damage the valve yet. But maybe it did because its having misfire in cylinders. Tomorrow i will get a hose that fits through the head and vaccuum it for the last time before giving a go to open the head.

If you guys have any input, im happy to hear it
Thanks

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Old September 8th, 2016, 03:38 PM   #4
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So little update,
Head is removed. As you can see piston and the head pretty messed up. Is there any chance that they could be polished up or should it all be replaced? This is crazy what a piece of spark plug can do. This little piece is costing me quite a bit.




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Old September 8th, 2016, 05:35 PM   #5
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buy a use motor
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Old September 9th, 2016, 10:35 AM   #6
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As long as it didn't score the cylinder or damage the valve seats it should be okay. Otherwise J32 swap time.
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Old September 9th, 2016, 06:22 PM   #7
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Damn man this sux. I have clean j32a3 heads for sale but it would slightly lower your compression bc they r made for an 89mm bore. On the other hand If my engine swap goes well I may have a j30a5 for sale soon
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Old September 9th, 2016, 09:42 PM   #8
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****.. if swap is necessary i wanna get j35(?) 3.5litre engine from tl type s or recent accords. Not sure how complicated it is to fit and not sure if my 6speed tranny would fit though

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Old September 9th, 2016, 09:43 PM   #9
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As long as it didn't score the cylinder or damage the valve seats it should be okay. Otherwise J32 swap time.
Seeing the condition, could this be the reason why im getting misfire on this cylinder?

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Old September 10th, 2016, 07:18 AM   #10
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I'd say yes...and even if it's not the reason it needs to be fixed regardless so it's a good place to start. As far as swaps are concerned the trans will only bolt up to an "old style" (04-06?) Acura motor. For j35 this means the tls is out but there's a whole thread dedicated to swap options.
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Old September 10th, 2016, 11:21 AM   #11
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Used J32a3 is around 4 or 500 bucks. Much cheaper than all the effort to repair this and still have questionable issues with debris in the motor.
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Old September 12th, 2016, 09:58 AM   #12
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I had the tip of the spark plug break off and disappear into my engine. Luckily for me it didn't cause any damage and everything was fine after replacing the plug. It looks like a lot more than just the tip broke off of your plug though. Good luck getting it fixed up.
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Old September 13th, 2016, 12:27 PM   #13
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Alright so final update,
No damage done to valves, cleaned the head, piston, cylinder wall as best as we can and put it all back together.
Compression is good, no misfire, i guess i avoided complete disaster for the time being.

Im just happy to get my car back lol.


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Old September 20th, 2016, 01:37 AM   #14
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Engine rebuild will sort it, i wouldn't buy a whole new engine
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Old September 27th, 2016, 04:52 PM   #15
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Alright, i hate to revive this thread but i need some input here

The car is fixed, or sorta, i got the car back about 1 week and half ago, all good, i even made 1400km trip with it after, everything is back to normal.
Today as i came out of my work i WOT my car first time after the repair, and the car bogs at 5500rpm. It goes up smooth until it hits 5500 and it just bogs as if it hit the rev limit.
No cel and nothing abnormal other than bogging.

What could be the reason? Is 5500rpm vtec engagement point?

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Old September 27th, 2016, 04:54 PM   #16
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check the oil?
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Old September 27th, 2016, 05:11 PM   #17
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How many miles on the car ?
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Old September 27th, 2016, 05:21 PM   #18
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I just checked the oil and **** the stick is clean. Missing oil
And i noticed my exhaust tip is unusually black, i never noticed before it all happened so i think the engine might be running rich after the repair.

Im crossing my finger the mechanic didnt put enough oil. Hopefully its not oil burning issue..

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Old September 27th, 2016, 05:22 PM   #19
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How many miles on the car ?
It now has 110,000km so about 65000miles?

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Old October 7th, 2016, 06:37 PM   #20
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Hey guys, reviving this again, kinda bummed out
Little update on the story of missing oil issue, it turned out that the engine is burning oil massively.
I brought the car in, my mechanic and i realizdd that its fuming quite a bit from the exhaust. We filled the oil, i tried the car for a week and there the car bogs again after a week, meaning lacking oil again.
I notify the issue to the mechanic and he swears my piston ring is shot. But i dont get it. The car didnt have oil burning issue at all before i brought the car in. The engine light only came on a few days before i brought the car in for timing belt job. It turned out to be misfire in cylinder 3 hence we decided to change coilpacks. And that is when my mechanic realized the piece of electorde of plug is broken and was bouncing in the cylinder. Still i had no burning or fuming issue right until i brought the car in.
Rest of the story you guys all know, we finally had to open the head to take the piece out. Then he put everything back, new head gasket and new timing belt abd water pump.
And now its burning oil big time.

Now my mechanic blames on piston ring being shot but i have hard time swallowing that because the car was perfectly fine until the day he opened the head. The ring doesnt get shot like that while sitting in his garage.

The only thing he has done is timing belt, new water pump, new head gasket, taken the broken piece out of the cylinder, clean the cylinder, and put the head back in. What could have gone wrong for it to suddenly burn so much oil?
Any ideas?? I told him to take a look and find a problem but he is really stuck on that idea of ring being shot and he is just telling me that he will just open the plug of cylinder 3 and see if there is oil in it. At this point he is just trying to prove himself right rather than trying to find what could have gone wrong while doing all the jobs that was mentioned.

I need some inputs guy, this is retarded, all i wanted was to change belt and pump and be happy. I didnt expect to scrap my engine just like that

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Old October 7th, 2016, 06:45 PM   #21
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He says it cant be timing since even 1mm in timing will cause check engine to pop up and engine is scrap.

And he is just blaming on the ring and previous owner for selling me the car. This is ridiculous, the car had no problem, i had the car for over 6 month and did around 8000km without a single problem or without even a sign of problem, so why blame the previous owner..

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Old October 7th, 2016, 06:52 PM   #22
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did you mill the head and the block? Or those marks on the piston could have cause some hot spots and cause massive detonation and destroyed what was left of those piston
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Old October 8th, 2016, 06:36 AM   #23
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did you mill the head and the block? Or those marks on the piston could have cause some hot spots and cause massive detonation and destroyed what was left of those piston
I think he slightly milled the piston
Not too sure though

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Old October 8th, 2016, 09:09 AM   #24
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I'm not surprised you weren't burning oil beforehand - there was nothing being burned by that cylinder if the electrode was gone. So that was a dead cylinder and the oil was probably just staying on the cylinder wall and being scraped up and down by the rings. Now that it has been repaired, excessive oil is getting into the cylinder and being burnt instead of staying in the cylinder.

Just a thought...
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Old October 8th, 2016, 09:19 AM   #25
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should have followed my tip of buying a used motor.

was the cylinder walls checked for scoring? Was the ring land replaced? Any boring of the cylinder?
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Old October 8th, 2016, 10:40 AM   #26
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should have followed my tip of buying a used motor.

was the cylinder walls checked for scoring? Was the ring land replaced? Any boring of the cylinder?
None of these were done as far as i know.
Thought of engine swap but my mechanic said the valve wasnt damaged so could be ok. But i guess not.
Im thinking either an engine swap or rebuild. I know roughly how much it would cost to do the swap but how much should i expect for a rebuild? You guys have any ballpark figure?

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Old October 8th, 2016, 10:47 AM   #27
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I'm not surprised you weren't burning oil beforehand - there was nothing being burned by that cylinder if the electrode was gone. So that was a dead cylinder and the oil was probably just staying on the cylinder wall and being scraped up and down by the rings. Now that it has been repaired, excessive oil is getting into the cylinder and being burnt instead of staying in the cylinder.

Just a thought...
Could be a possibility but what i find it weird is that i was able to hear ticking sound maybe like a week before the check engine popped. There was no power loss or any kind of sign that tells me one of the cylinder wasnt firing up. That ticking noise or maybe sounded more like toned down diesel engine, Im guessing it was the broken piece bouncing in cylinder. So if that's true then the electrode must have been broken before the light yet the light only popped up way later.

But i can see what you mean though, could explain why its burning now and not before


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Old October 8th, 2016, 12:18 PM   #28
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I'm not convinced on the 1mm timing advice...you line up the timing marks and you're set. The belt fits in such a way that you can't b off by 1mm. Spin it twice and if the marks line up again ur set (j series are 2:1 rotation ratio crank to cam).

Have u tried compression test? Leak down test?
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Old October 8th, 2016, 12:59 PM   #29
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I'm not convinced on the 1mm timing advice...you line up the timing marks and you're set. The belt fits in such a way that you can't b off by 1mm. Spin it twice and if the marks line up again ur set (j series are 2:1 rotation ratio crank to cam).

Have u tried compression test? Leak down test?
Compression yes, according to the mechanic it was good.
Leak down no.. but wouldnt compression be good if oil leaks in the cylinder? Maybe he is bs'ng about compression, i havent seen the result myself

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Old October 8th, 2016, 01:59 PM   #30
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does the car smoke at all?
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