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Old April 29th, 2008, 03:30 PM   #1
 
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premium gas on 08 v6

ok i know i'm probaly gonna get flamed for this but i want a sure answer. I read somewhere that if u add premium to the v6 models, u gain an extra 10 hp. I know the 03-07 v6's were dyno proven. but I'm not sure about the 08 models. I'm just wondering bc someone i know put premium in his v6 accord (6 gen) and the engine started sputtering and he had to get his car fixed bc it was messed up. is there any explanation to that?
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Old April 29th, 2008, 03:40 PM   #2
 
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premium fuel will neither help nor hurt performance significantly. The urban myth about turning your car into an "octane junkie" with premium fuel is just that, a myth. You don't need 91 octane because the compression ratio is not as high
as it is in an S2000 (for example). If you put 87 octane in a car that requires premium fuel, you will geta CEL with a lean code.
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Old April 29th, 2008, 04:10 PM   #3
 
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so it WILL give u + 10 hp and 10 tq? i know it's not much, but it adds on when u add all the bolt-ons....
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Old April 29th, 2008, 05:47 PM   #4
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Old April 29th, 2008, 06:03 PM   #5
 
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umm idk i dont think your gonna get any gains.. its just gonna run cleaner and probably keep the engine cleaner longer..
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Old April 29th, 2008, 06:32 PM   #6
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you might would gain 1-3 hp tops i doubt that much.. if your stock i would save and run the cheap stuff lol i wish i could run it these days. damn turbo junk lol
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Old April 29th, 2008, 07:16 PM   #7
 
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I just thought it would be the same for the 08 v6 models bc the 07 6mt baselines at like 206 whp i think and it was dynoed with premium and got 216 whp. i forgot where i read it. i think it was temple of vtec. i could be wrong.
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Old April 29th, 2008, 07:19 PM   #8
 
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so it WILL give u + 10 hp and 10 tq?
no. 93 or higher might yeild 1 or 2 hp. I run 110 octane in my racing kart and can tell the difference between it and pump gas. I doubt you can tell any difference in anything you can purchase at a regular gas station.
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Old April 29th, 2008, 08:33 PM   #9
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On the previous 7th gen accords. A Honda engineer being interviewed in USA Today went on the record saying that the engine is good for another 10hp and 10 lb-ft of torque going from 87 to 91 octane, with the implication that it was rated on 87 octane for marketing purposes. 10.0:1 compression with aggressive enough timing is enough that you can exceed the knock limits of 87 octane fuel. The 6th gen J30A1 had conservative timing and lower 9.4:1 compression and not even a knock sensor, which is why that engine doesn't gain squat on premium but actually loses power. That was dyno proven by Car & Driver back in the day. As for the 7th gen V6, I've seen enough track and timing log data to support 91 octane giving more power, although I don't think I recall ever seeing a specific dyno comparison of the two.

You can get to the USA Today article here still: http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...1-accord_x.htm

Elsewhere in Honda technical literature at the time it was noted in the footnotes that some engines like the Pilot would gain 10 lb-ft of torque with premium, which they recommended for towing, which shows that the "brains" are there to adjust the engine based on what kind of fuel is in it (knock detection, multiple timing maps, etc)

I've heard absolutely nothing about the 8th gen though, but haven't really dug into the literature available for the engine on HondaNews.com to find clues, and haven't seen anything reported either. I suspect it "may" pickup some power on premium, but have no idea how much. To note, Toyota's 3.5L V6 engines were previously rated at 280hp, but the old SAE J1349 test standards had a loophole in them in that you could advertise them on whatever fuel you care to test with and then not specifically state that that fuel was "required". That loophole is closed now, so if you want to advertise SAE numbers you can only advertise with the fuel you test on. Nobody wants to say premium is "required" in mainstream non-luxury cars, so that's a big part of the reason why that 280hp number is down to 268hp now, which coincidentally happens to match the Accord's 3.5L V6, also rated on regular gas.

Going to 100 octane is definitely going to be pointless. With 93 in the tank, you're probably never going to be exceeding the knock limit of 93 octane fuel, and thus 100 octane would give zero benefit and probably do more harm than good.
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 12:35 AM   #10
 
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Straight from a dyno done by TOV on a 08 V6 sedan
Quote:
We were a little underwhelmed by the results of our first dyno session last Thursday, so we ran the tank pretty close to dry and refilled it with nearly 18.5 gallons of 93 Octane Chevron, then drove another 50 miles to make sure the engine computer had time to "learn" that it had higher octane fuel in it. As you can see in the plot below, it appears that this higher octane fuel allowed the engine computer to take advantage of the extra octane as both torque and horsepower improved between 5400 and 6600 rpms, with maximum gains of around 8-9hp and between 6 and 7 lb-ft of torque. Are the gains worth spending an extra $3-4 per tank? Probably not.
Sedan: http://motegi.vtec.net/articles/view...icle_id=714997

Coupe: http://motegi.vtec.net/articles/view...icle_id=719873
http://motegi.vtec.net/articles/view...icle_id=721178
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 02:24 PM   #11
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Awesome links...

FYI, I only burn the best I can find... but thats just me, MR. Wasteful
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Old May 13th, 2008, 01:09 AM   #12
 
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Well b4 the car was released, hondas numbers were v6 273hp and 4cyl 200. so the numbers seemed to change once the engines were to run on reg gas 87. So it would be interesting to see the numbers 87 vs. 93. I think vtec.net showed some better numbers when they tested 08 v6.
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Old May 13th, 2008, 01:56 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteVTEC View Post
On the previous 7th gen accords. A Honda engineer being interviewed in USA Today went on the record saying that the engine is good for another 10hp and 10 lb-ft of torque going from 87 to 91 octane, with the implication that it was rated on 87 octane for marketing purposes. 10.0:1 compression with aggressive enough timing is enough that you can exceed the knock limits of 87 octane fuel. The 6th gen J30A1 had conservative timing and lower 9.4:1 compression and not even a knock sensor, which is why that engine doesn't gain squat on premium but actually loses power. That was dyno proven by Car & Driver back in the day. As for the 7th gen V6, I've seen enough track and timing log data to support 91 octane giving more power, although I don't think I recall ever seeing a specific dyno comparison of the two.

You can get to the USA Today article here still: http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...1-accord_x.htm

Elsewhere in Honda technical literature at the time it was noted in the footnotes that some engines like the Pilot would gain 10 lb-ft of torque with premium, which they recommended for towing, which shows that the "brains" are there to adjust the engine based on what kind of fuel is in it (knock detection, multiple timing maps, etc)

I've heard absolutely nothing about the 8th gen though, but haven't really dug into the literature available for the engine on HondaNews.com to find clues, and haven't seen anything reported either. I suspect it "may" pickup some power on premium, but have no idea how much. To note, Toyota's 3.5L V6 engines were previously rated at 280hp, but the old SAE J1349 test standards had a loophole in them in that you could advertise them on whatever fuel you care to test with and then not specifically state that that fuel was "required". That loophole is closed now, so if you want to advertise SAE numbers you can only advertise with the fuel you test on. Nobody wants to say premium is "required" in mainstream non-luxury cars, so that's a big part of the reason why that 280hp number is down to 268hp now, which coincidentally happens to match the Accord's 3.5L V6, also rated on regular gas.

Going to 100 octane is definitely going to be pointless. With 93 in the tank, you're probably never going to be exceeding the knock limit of 93 octane fuel, and thus 100 octane would give zero benefit and probably do more harm than good.
Right on the money Steve, as usual

I would assume there are gains to be had simply because my CLS powertrain runs 10.5:1 CR and 91 octane gas a something recomended by Honda, the new J35's now run on identical CR's but I believe like the TL's have an oil injector to squirt oil on the underside of the piston to reduce temps and allow more aggressive timing and/or lower octane requirements while keeping timing the same.

heck even my brother with his R18 running 10.5:1 CR stock feels a difference with 91 octane gas.

To sum it up they are run on the limit of 87 to maximize value/performance, should you seek more performance that higher octange gas option is there for you.
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Old July 8th, 2008, 07:36 AM   #14
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Last year with my 2004 accord v6 coupe automatic (completely stock), I tried with higher octane (89). Went to the track and the car ran slower. I lost 3 mph in quarter mile. The week after I went back with regular gas and got back my 3 mph. Basically if you don't change the timing or add any force induction, it is useless. This time I went back with aem v2 / borla, change to 91 octane and saw now performance gain. Hope this helps
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Old July 9th, 2008, 03:11 AM   #15
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Quote:
ok i know i'm probaly gonna get flamed for this but i want a sure answer.
yes.....


No. paying for prem at the pump is a waste. For the little gain you get, it's not worth it.
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Old July 9th, 2008, 06:49 AM   #16
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i use 89 octane in mine, its 8-10 cents more but when you look at current gas prices its only like 2% more then 87, and i can hear that with 89 it runs better couse i dont hear any knocking from time to time with 87, and i used same brand of gas for about a year or so (99% of time from same gas station ). i ran 91 or 93 from time to time to clean fuel system sometimes
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Old July 9th, 2008, 09:29 AM   #17
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yes.....


No. paying for prem at the pump is a waste. For the little gain you get, it's not worth it.
I disagree. Premium fuel is .20 cents more than unleaded per gallon. If you fill up with 15 gallons you only pay 3 dollars more. IMO Its well worth it to use premium fuel. 91 will resist knocking much better than 87 will. Didn't you see the TOV dyno with the 08 Accord auto V6. They tested it with 87 and then later with 91. It dyno'd much higher with 91 since the knock sensor didn't have to retard the timing.
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Old July 10th, 2008, 02:11 PM   #18
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I disagree. Premium fuel is .20 cents more than unleaded per gallon. If you fill up with 15 gallons you only pay 3 dollars more. IMO Its well worth it to use premium fuel. 91 will resist knocking much better than 87 will. Didn't you see the TOV dyno with the 08 Accord auto V6. They tested it with 87 and then later with 91. It dyno'd much higher with 91 since the knock sensor didn't have to retard the timing.
True, I'm just saying in every Honda I've had, its said just regular gas in the manual.

My Honda's over the years haven't had any major problems using regular gas. So I say why buy it? Personal satisfaction? I still have a 1991 Accord Sedan that has over 200k on it and I haven't used prem gas once.

I understand your point, just stating my position that I don't think it's worth it. The gain is not enough IMO.

Cheers!
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Old July 10th, 2008, 10:41 PM   #19
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i put 91 octane and synthetic oil the very first time i had to fill up after buying the car and when it was time to change the oil. i'm at 90k miles now. i only use 91 and synthetic oil. i know i can use 87 and regular oil but i made the decision when i bought the car that i was only going to use super unleaded and synthetic oil for the life of the car. its a personal choice because i can afford it.

i dyno'd at 224whp and 191wtq with my Comptech exhaust, AEM V2 CAI and 91 octane. i get 25/32 cty/hwy. i am a happy Honda customer.
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Old July 11th, 2008, 05:47 AM   #20
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For sure Premium is the way to go on these Hondas... on other cars it may be a waste, but not here.

All providing you can afford tp feed your baby Premium, for as we all know... because of advanced engineering, we can use 87 anytime we like
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Old July 11th, 2008, 06:19 AM   #21
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I don't know about the 8G V6, but my 7G V6 hates 87 with a passion. The engine pings during acceleration, it feels really sluggish, and the gas mileage sucks.

Running 93 octane is a whole different ball-game, however. On 93, the pinging stops, acceleration is smoother and stronger (especially in the low-end), and (best of all) gas mileage is much better. My all-time best mileage in city driving is 26.2 MPG on premium, but only 23 on regular.

Despite its extra cost, I've found premium gas to more than pay for itself, thanks to its superior fuel efficiency.
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Old July 11th, 2008, 09:41 AM   #22
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I don't know about the 8G V6, but my 7G V6 hates 87 with a passion. The engine pings during acceleration, it feels really sluggish, and the gas mileage sucks.

Running 93 octane is a whole different ball-game, however. On 93, the pinging stops, acceleration is smoother and stronger (especially in the low-end), and (best of all) gas mileage is much better. My all-time best mileage in city driving is 26.2 MPG on premium, but only 23 on regular.

Despite its extra cost, I've found premium gas to more than pay for itself, thanks to its superior fuel efficiency.
The other day I recorded my best all city mileage at 26.7MPG. Unfortunantly we only have 91 octane here in AZ. I mix 100 octane every once in a while to clean out the fuel system. Seems to help with performance slightly.
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Old July 25th, 2008, 07:29 AM   #23
 
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I feel like my buddy's Accord flat out drives nicer on 93 octane gas, maybe it's all in my head.
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Old July 25th, 2008, 09:20 AM   #24
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well it's written in the user manual that if you put octane 91 in the car, you will get an extra 10hp so if it's in the manual, I think it's true...
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Old July 29th, 2008, 04:32 AM   #25
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well it's written in the user manual that if you put octane 91 in the car, you will get an extra 10hp so if it's in the manual, I think it's true...
What? It says that in the 8G's owner's manual?
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Old August 3rd, 2008, 01:21 AM   #26
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Quote:
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no. 93 or higher might yeild 1 or 2 hp. I run 110 octane in my racing kart and can tell the difference between it and pump gas. I doubt you can tell any difference in anything you can purchase at a regular gas station.
I felt a difference from going 87 to 91, and got the same style of feeling, when i changed oil to royal purple, its all about what you modify, i might have gained about 10 hp from my mods so far, not much but its a start imho


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What? It says that in the 8G's owner's manual?
I will check this tommorrow, ill look for something to do with gas, see if it says something like that, and if so, ill take a picture of it... haha
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Old August 15th, 2008, 12:19 AM   #27
 
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just use shell v power...word is that they actually are the best premium gas out there, bp is right after them.
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 01:11 AM   #28
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Thumbs up

09 EX-L v6 here.
I pump 91 gas all day everyday.
(76) gas that is.
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Old November 6th, 2008, 09:47 PM   #29
 
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Interesting
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Old February 17th, 2009, 08:12 AM   #30
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i use 93 on my 7th gen because thats what they offer in illinois, and i actually notice a big difference in gas mileage, its actually better. As long as you dont beat on it, but if you do beat on it, well then ur lookin at about 13 mpgs
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