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Old December 4th, 2014, 02:27 PM   #1
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J35Z2 damaged cam rebuild opinions

Hey, really need some insight.
I have a 2009 Accord V6 Sedan, with the J35Z2 engine.
Purchased at 46k, approaching 130k now.
At around 60k, I noticed lots of oil consumption, and after a long trip from NYC>MIA and back. I had a flashing CEL.
I've had to have the plugs changed numerous times, because they were fouled. At 80k, I had the tube seals changed, thinking it would help before, I found out about the VCM issues with the oil control rings on the pistons.
In and out of Honda, they've refused to cover anything past free spark plugs, they've given me two PCM updates in the last two years.
Recently I noticed my VTEC solenoid on the front head was leaking at the gasket, so I opted to swap the whole $100 unit.
After removing the front head cover, we saw a damaged cam and damaged rocker arm roller bearing, all across the front head, but most worst at 5.
At the same time, my OBD module shows over 800 misfires on cyl #5 and I keep getting popping sounds from the exhaust. The popping has been going on for over 40,000 miles, and at times, I thought it was because I had holes in my muffler, which I fixed but it didn't help.
Now that #5 got so bad at misfiring, I had to take it in back to Honda. so now while I'm at Honda, they AGAIN recommend plugs for the 4th time, kinda getting frustrating.

Just want to know, if I'm rebuilding my heads and getting a new cam, i have a few options.
1. Go OEM thru my friend at Acura and pay $450 for the cam/rocker arm per head, and another $900 per head to install.
My indy recommends still getting it sent for machining.
2. Bisimoto Cam Grind???? Will I need a tune? Will it fit OE rocker arm?
3. Find out the correct parts, and get a nice rebuild done using my indy shop. If i'm rebuilding the heads, why go OEM, if someone could tell me what I will need, like Titanium springs, retainers, valves, etc.... or does nothing fit a J35Z2?

I know that I'd be much better off if I had a J35A8 but I dont and I'd rather put my money where it counts.

Thanks for reading, pics below.
Oh yeah, I've never gone low on oil, once I saw it was at the tip below the low line, and I added right away, but I'm very meticulous checking it, I use Amsoil SS 5w20 since I got the car. I've done oil reports thru blackstone that came back fine with only a little sodium as a coolant marker, could have been an oil additive though.









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Old December 4th, 2014, 02:56 PM   #2
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Are you At?

Look for a J37a4 head since it had dual vtec. Might as well upgrade
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Old December 4th, 2014, 03:12 PM   #3
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Yeah, I'm AT, with the stupid VCM.
Been waiting for KTuner to come out with a nice solution for a while now.
So the J37a4 heads could possibly bolt up to my J35z2 block?
Those heads are from a TL, I'd definitely need the ECU since the TL doesn't have VCM and my VCM ECU will probably bug out.

Thanks
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Old December 4th, 2014, 04:01 PM   #4
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check out ebay from heads. That will be your best bet to keep cost down
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Old December 4th, 2014, 04:44 PM   #5
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Why replace the whole head? If the rocker is bad and caused the damage to the cam, replace the rocker assembly and get Bisi stage 1 cams (no valve train upgrade needed).
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Old December 4th, 2014, 04:46 PM   #6
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^ his AT so his camshaft are weird as hell. Some have 6 lobes some have 3 lobes
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Old December 5th, 2014, 01:40 AM   #7
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Well Honda told me I'm assed out cuz of my exhaust mods -_-.
So on to the next dealership somewhere in Long Island hopefully.
They said they didn't wanna cover it under VCM because only 5&6 are misfiring. Soon as I got home, I switched 4 & 5. And now P0304 came up.
I then switched 4 and 3. Now 3 is misfiring.
So now I got all 4 codes they wanted for VCM.
Funniest part is, when I took out the plug from Cyl 3, it was even worse then 5, completely white crusted arc. It was also wet at the threads, I dont get how the hell P0303 wasn't coming up with an oily plug! Nuts!
Well the plug from 5 did the trick.

On another note, I dont think I'd be able to use the TL heads because of the VTEC solenoid not being a part of the head as my z2 heads are.

Here is my z2 head.


Here is the j37a4 head.


Is there any cam I can use, from a TL-S or anything?
Or because of my weird VCM lobes, it's up for debate?
I'm gonna upload the Acura Tech breakdown pics I have for the camshaft, maybe it'll help some people help me
Also the rocker secondary locker bearing is what caused the cam damage, the bearing/roller doesn't come separate, should I look for upgraded rocker arms or matching ones for the cam I get would be ideal?

And a Bisi Cam Regrind and rocker rebushing wouldnt be a viable option because of the VCM? I don't really know any good machine shops in the NYC area, and my indy is real skeptical 'bout a few of em.

Still praying for a VCM Piston job at the stealership though
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Old December 5th, 2014, 08:01 AM   #8
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hmm unfortunately we don't have a lot of information for engine with VCM
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Old December 5th, 2014, 12:50 PM   #9
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I'd say no with the TL-S cams, it's completely different profile.

Some of the lobes on your cam are just a circle - that's how it engages VCM. Essentially VCM replaced VTEC in your AT, when your VTEC solenoid engages it shuts down cylinders by switching over to the rocker arm that is on a lobe on your cam that is just a circle. That prevents those valves from opening.

I think you're outta luck, as to change it you'd have to change the electronics like you mentioned as well and your ECU is also controlling your auto-tranny.

You'd be better of selling it than trying to change it from VCM to VTEC.

That TSB for oil consumption on the 8G's has them tearing down the bottom end, that'd be your best bet, I can't imagine that they could ignore the cam in that shape when they get into the bottom end to do the rings on the pistons. If the cam problem could be tied to the oil consumption problem and they do the TSB, I'd try to get them to replace the cam and associated rocker arms as well since that is probably also a result of the oil consumption issues.
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Old December 5th, 2014, 01:43 PM   #10
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Have you changed the coil packs? I know you mentioned the plugs were changed
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Old December 5th, 2014, 04:46 PM   #11
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Really appreciate the input, all around.
I've only had to change one coil pack, because of a ripped boot, on a very oil soaked plug. It was #3 but I know the coils are fine, the plugs are literally soaked in oil crud, so I'm sure the oil control rings started this whole mess from the beginning.
I was hoping someone would chime in and say that the camshaft being damaged could be blamed by this issue, as a whole.
Appreciate that, considering I was starting to blame myself a tad .
Got an app't with another stealership tomorrow, praying.
Till then, I hit Bisi up to see if they have any opinions, let them know the zero lift lobe issue.
I'll keep checking eBay, thanks for that.

I'll also upload those tech papers on the VCM and cams, and just some quote, maybe somebody will need it one day or maybe it'll help me lol.

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According to a friend, the 2013 RDX has the same engine, since he doesn't have access to Honda Tech Data, he pulled it up for the RDX's J35Z2.
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Old December 5th, 2014, 05:17 PM   #12
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I found VCM MDX heads on eBay not too long ago. You can also try Car-parts.com. Lots of parts and may end up being cheaper to just drop a J37a3 into your car
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Old December 26th, 2014, 12:58 AM   #13
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Well, it looks like after a couple years of fighting AHM, three sets of spark plugs, two PCM updates, two catalytic converters, and several side of the road breakdowns, I've finally gotten the stealership to cave in on the repair of the short block.
Car was dropped off on Dec. 6, still haven't heard anything since Dec. 15 when he told me he'd have to check the "carbon buildup on the piston rings" to see what the right steps to alleviate the situation. The whole time I just wanna scream GIVE ME A DAMN ENGINE!!! But I held back from yelling and well, it paid off.
Ignoring my painted red ported runners, my UR lightweight stock diameter crank pulley, my magnaflow exhaust, my RV6 HFPC's and J Pipe, I was able to get a short block replacement. I decided to just stop by for the hell of it to grab some stuff from the car, and a different service advisor pulled up my paperwork, and said my cars being work on now, as I peeped the screen all I saw was Block Assembly, $2800. Fr. Camshaft $115, Rr. Camshaft 115. Operating Comp PCM. $550. Something of that nature, he offered to take me in to take a look, I was astounded to see my block fully dropped Dirty pistons and all. Heads were missing, so I'm still waiting to find out the final word, as my service rep had never called me since they decided to check the "Carbon buildup". I did call AHM and urge a rep to get in contact with the dealership and find out if I had ever had my piston rings replaced. Over the years, I had opened numerous complaints and interactions with AHM corporate in an effort to document this persistent problem. This was after constantly dealing with another dealership which literally after three spark plug changes and two PCM updates said they did not want to work on my car because it had a modified exhaust, blah blah blah. They even called the Regional Rep for the northeast, and told them about my highly "modified" car. -_- This dealership I am at now, is the Best! Hands down. I will be be bringing them more then a few bottles of Cognac and Tequila when I am fully settled with the repairs
Well let's just say Merry Christmas to me and I cant wait to get my baby back I managed to sneak in a lil vid, so I took some screenshots of it lol.

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By the looks of it, that is the new block.
Now I'm just wondering why they need a PCM/ECU, maybe because the new heads come from the Acura RDX's and they require a different ecu, who knows
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 08:12 PM   #14
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Cylinder 4 is Shot

Hi all,
With all the issues on this misfiring and the damage it can cause, has anyone ever had or heard of a valve break? Its a long story. Once I get to my "10" posts (since I am a new user) I will paste it on the main board for all to see. Such a nightmare!
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Old March 23rd, 2016, 05:36 PM   #15
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A broken valve or bent? If the valve contacted the piston usually it would bend, not break. Interested to see this and know "why"
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Old March 23rd, 2016, 10:19 PM   #16
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im suprised your entertaining this dude.
he spammed 4 threads with the same crap -_- lol.

EDIT: She* pm'd me.
Her indy kept messing with the dirty plugs, like mine above, and one seized, and then the motor knocked after being put back 'properly'.
And basically everything went to hell, and she towed the car to the dealer.
And basically 'the whole engine is disassembled' and they're blaming it all on a improperly assembled engine and on her indy.
Basically, her indy isn't the brightest tool in the shed for not telling her to go to the dealer asap soon as he saw the situation.
Then again, my own indy back in 2011 and 2012, twice, had changed spark plug tube seals (due to vcm leak) , before we all knew about the extended warranty and the piston ring issue.
So even I was down a few hundred from AHM not informing customers and Indys not expecting this bull**** internal leak.

Another pathetic VCM engine ruining a consumers life for the time-being.
Honestly, AHM are damn pieces of sh*t for not recalling all the VCM blocks and at least, confirming proper operation.
Rather then have these ticking timebombs, promising to fix them when customers come in, not realizing NOT EVERYONE comes in, then its too late, then the customer has to pay for an engine.
Never buying another piece of **** AHM car -_-.

Can't wait to do my J37 swap though :|

' I finally got my 60k service at 75k miles (I know I know BAD!) and the mechanic noticed the hesitation too. So he replace all the spark plugs, and the spark plug on 4 was latched on there so tight that it was stripped when removed to change out the plugs. He still noticed the issue. He did an engine flush, and changed out the recently changed conventional for synthetic. Engine sounded great as the flush ran. Then he buttoned it up for a test drive, and all hell broke loose when it started knocking. So when he got back to the shop he took of the head and the valve on 4 was sheered off. AND the head on 4 was a dark color, where as 6 was shiny gold. Thats not right! (Thats where the oil was going!) He mentioned all the codes it was spitting out BEFORE the valve broke and P0304 was one of them. And that has to do with the lawsuit. My car is a 2010 so its included IF this proves to be the problem. Well, once I verified that I had it towed it to the dealership, which is saying "not-it" and giving me a price for a new engine. WTF?! This isnt right either! They are saying the new timing belt was done wrong. That when the spark plugs were changed that the mechanic left something in the block. That there is no way to tie the P0304 code and issue to my broken valve. And therefore the extended warranty due to the lawsuit wont apply. Well, my mechanic knows how to time an engine. He didnt leave anything in the block. And its all just too much of a coincidence. They cant prove it wasnt the VCM issue, and I cant prove it was. The car came to them in pieces, they didnt do the timing belt, blah blah blah. '

Re-read it.
You didn't need to do timing belt, timing belt is only at 100k-110k.
It's fine that you did 60k service at 75k. What is in your 60k service anyway? Sparkplugs, Transmission Oil, thats really about it. Maybe brake pads, brake fluid flush. If you really meticulous, coolant flush.
As long as you haven't ran your motor on no oil (2+ qts under), let it overheat, I don't think you did anything bad.

Problem is why the hell did the valve bend?
The only way it can bend is if it hit something.
Maybe the spark plug thread was damaged and it moved?
Which valve bent? #4? I don't get it, the thread was gone you said, did he verify the thread on the head was still good to accept a new plug?
Or he just screwed on a new spark plug and said, thats that?

I prayyy for youuu,

Last edited by beekayhoax; March 23rd, 2016 at 10:41 PM..
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Old March 24th, 2016, 07:14 AM   #17
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Well, I too am running into VCM on a build I am working on. 09 AV6 AT, doing piston upgrade to bump compression and J37A3 dual Vtec heads. My plan for dealing with VCM is to use a 07 MDX ECU and engine harness. The 07 MDX is for the J37A1 engine with basically the same 5spd trans minus the prop shaft extension. AWD is controlled outside of the ECU by a separate module. The ECU mounts in the same engine bay location as the 8th gen and is tunable VIA KTuner. I should be doing this swap in about a month and will update then.
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