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Old March 15th, 2008, 08:29 PM   #1
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help with system not loud enough

i have two JL 12's w3 v3. each are 4ohm single. i have a rockford fosgate 600.1bd which is 2 ohm stable and it works out fine with the subs (ohm wise).
The birth charts says 699 rms (2097 max power). So im assuming i'm at least getting 300 rms to each sub which is what they require. It's in a sealed enclosure with 1.25 cubic feet for each sub which is what the subs require. The gain is up about 70% to 75% to make sound good at least to my ears.
The question is it seems that subs want more power? cuz it doesn't seem its getting as loud as it should. i have 4 gauge rockford fosgate wiring. it sounds pretty clean but just not loud enough for amount power the amp is rated??
One thing i don't have installed is a capacitor.

any insight is appreciated. thanks
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Old March 16th, 2008, 06:50 AM   #2
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It sounds to me like you want to bump, if so you need to go ported or bandpass. Sealed enclosures use more power and don't play as loud but cleaner and more accurate than ported.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 08:16 AM   #3
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We can't really help you out because we don't know if the bass is fine or if you just expect more out of the w3.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 09:34 AM   #4
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Also your gain is up way too high. What kind of headunit and rca voltage.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 11:22 PM   #5
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yeah i really wanted something that sounded clean. these jl's sound much much better than the kickers i had before.
the headunit is a pioneer p7600mp at 2 volts.
i just expected a little more juice.

thanks wht/accord99v6 & nexson for replying.

i'll post some pics up later.
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Old March 17th, 2008, 04:19 PM   #6
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Hook up a cap to the amp. It wont hurt. If your subs are draining more power than what your amp can dish out, then the cap will be very helpful. If its loud and it sounds good already, why do you want to go louder!? Save your ear drums mang.
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Old March 17th, 2008, 09:32 PM   #7
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i was thinking about a jl 1000/1 amp or jl 500/1
but yeah i think i will save my ear drums.
yeah i'll try and find me a cap.
i guess sounddomain.com went out of business where have i been.
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Old March 18th, 2008, 09:04 AM   #8
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Id go to either Crutchfield or even ebay for a decent cap.
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Old March 18th, 2008, 09:53 AM   #9
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Alright...

Your subs may sound decent, but for the money theyre not going to be giving you as much 'bump' as it sounds you desire. They are rated for MAX of 300w rms, so i would run 600-1200 through them to make sure you have enough power. Subs are generally overrated, and amps are underrated. But its allways better to have more power than not...

A capacitor will no next to NOTHING in this instance, and most others. There is little reason to get a cap when you have the abiity to get thicker wire and or a better battery. Running a dedicated run of 2ga, or 0ga for BOTH + and - directly from the battery (fused of course) will be a significant improvement over a capacitor, and cost about the same if not less. If you have the stock battery, consider a new optima red top. Relocating it to the trunk can further help if you decide to get a rather demanding amp. For those subs, i wouldnt buy anything less than a 1200w amp. 600 is pathetic. Now, be aware that with 1200w comes some problems. If you turn the volume all the way up and keep it there, you got 5 mins before these subs smoke and the voice coils fuse. So, you would have to make sure you are aware of what they are doing in your trunk and or properly adjust the gain on the amp so that you cant push the subs beyond thier natural excursion. And i dont think you can do what you want with these subs, get some better JL's, or if you dont care all that much about sound quality, audiobahn makes some loud stuff for super cheap. Or just get 2 more of these...

Basically, you need more power... Alot more.
If you want to get serious, get a optima red top in the trunk and run the thickest wire you can find to the amp and get a reducer to reduce it down to fit into the amps terminal. I ran a 1/0 to my 1600w amp and noticed a significant improvement over the 3x 8ga i had before.
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Old March 18th, 2008, 12:14 PM   #10
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True but too much power will fry the speakers as you noted, esp. the ones he has. So whats the point in having all that power if you can't use it? Getting just a little more power than what the subs are rated to handle is the way to go IMO, unless you plan on upgrading int he near future.

If he does upgrade the battery to a more powerful one with better cables and he is not getting any kind of diming problems then yea your right, a cap is pretty much useless. However if he keeps his current setup the cap won't hurt. I wonder what gauge wiring he is using right now too. That may be the problem right there. With incorrect wiring your amp will not get the sufficient power it needs to power your subs and you may end up hurting your amp over time.
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Old March 18th, 2008, 04:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCdjg View Post
True but too much power will fry the speakers as you noted, esp. the ones he has. So whats the point in having all that power if you can't use it? Getting just a little more power than what the subs are rated to handle is the way to go IMO, unless you plan on upgrading int he near future.

If he does upgrade the battery to a more powerful one with better cables and he is not getting any kind of diming problems then yea your right, a cap is pretty much useless. However if he keeps his current setup the cap won't hurt. I wonder what gauge wiring he is using right now too. That may be the problem right there. With incorrect wiring your amp will not get the sufficient power it needs to power your subs and you may end up hurting your amp over time.
You dont understand, a amp will sound much better when it has some headroom and it isnt struggling to put out the power. And you can and SHOULD overpower your speakers if you want to get some volume out of them, or to help those huge 12" drivers to move a little faster and feel more 'impactive' vs. just being slugs and you feel the thump 1/2 second after it should have been.

Over time thin wires to the amp would have little effect on its life, but it sure dosent help. You blow speakers more often from not having enough power vs having too much, as long as you know the limits of the drivers.

I ran 1600w into 2x 200w 10" subs and it sounded fantastic and was 3-4dB louder than the loudest car i knew at the time, wich had 3 12"s... Understand the limits of the subs and insane power is fantastic. You obviously cant run thousands of watts into subs continuously unless you liquid cool them, thats just a insane amount of heat for ANY sub to deal with. But 5 mins is fine. Then, let them cool off for a hour and you can go back at it. If you want any more than 5 mins of insane volume, think about getting 8+ subs to help spread out the heat, and put some dam earplugs in, you will be deaf shortly...
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Old March 18th, 2008, 05:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericspda View Post
You dont understand, a amp will sound much better when it has some headroom and it isnt struggling to put out the power. And you can and SHOULD overpower your speakers if you want to get some volume out of them, or to help those huge 12" drivers to move a little faster and feel more 'impactive' vs. just being slugs and you feel the thump 1/2 second after it should have been....
Actually I do understand. As I stated earlier yeah you want to get an amp thats a little more powerful than your subs, but not too powerful. If you get a really powerful amp and power your subs that are not designed to handle over a certain rms and peak wattage yea sure they might play really nice for a short time, but eventually (and I do mean sooner that later) they will blow. Underpowering is no good either since it will cause distortion which will hurt the sub too. Its basically a balancing act. I agree with you that yes its better to overpower than underpower, but its usless to get a really large and powerful amp unless you plan on upgrading to higher rating subs in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericspda View Post
Over time thin wires to the amp would have little effect on its life, but it sure dosent help. You blow speakers more often from not having enough power vs having too much, as long as you know the limits of the drivers.

I ran 1600w into 2x 200w 10" subs and it sounded fantastic and was 3-4dB louder than the loudest car i knew at the time, wich had 3 12"s... Understand the limits of the subs and insane power is fantastic. You obviously cant run thousands of watts into subs continuously unless you liquid cool them, thats just a insane amount of heat for ANY sub to deal with. But 5 mins is fine. Then, let them cool off for a hour and you can go back at it. If you want any more than 5 mins of insane volume, think about getting 8+ subs to help spread out the heat, and put some dam earplugs in, you will be deaf shortly...
If you have the wrong cables to power your amp its no good. For example, why do you think a toaster requires a thin little plug to get its power vs. a fridges? Do you think if you switched the plugs around they both would still run properly? Its called amps. Amperage must be controlled in order to protect the electrical lines from overheating or short-circuiting. You do this with the proper wiring and fuses.

Personally I like continuous play, not 5 min little excursions and 1hr breaks when I play my music.
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Old March 18th, 2008, 06:07 PM   #13
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Jl Audio W3's are capable of putting out serious bass if the box is correct. Don't get wrapped up into the wattage thing. You have an amplifier that is capable of 600 watts using test tones not music. Speaker wattage ratings is thermal power (heat) most if not all of your music wont be 100 watts at its loudest because of the dynamics of music. Look into building a ported box and upgrading the grounds,battery,alternator the add a capacitor if it's called for. Good Luck
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Old March 18th, 2008, 10:28 PM   #14
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i do have 4 gauge wiring which is decent. rockford fosgate kit i used.

i think i probably need more power but not too much. unless i go ported. i liked having the extra space.

hmm jl 1000/1 is so expensive. im sure there are cheaper alternatives.

i will probably keep this setup this way for the time being.


thanks everybody for replying
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