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Old May 8th, 2007, 12:03 AM   #1
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alternator turns on and off??

Hey guys, need some info/suggestions... it's a 2005 accord coupe v6 auto. i am currently running a 600W system with 200W up front and 400W sub (eD 13kv.2). over summer the sub is becming a 13 av.2 with a 1200W amp (nine.1) into a 1400W. so i wanted to make sure that my car can handle the madness.

in the spirit of being prepared, i have a yellow top and a "ground stabilizer" from SUN automotive that i picked up when i was visiting tokyo. i have a voltmeter that i've attached to one of the ground stabilizer ends and the fuse block for the 4 gauge that goes to my amps. my system runs anywhere from 13.7 to 14.1, and i thought life was good.

but every once in a while, my system voltage drops. to 12.1 - 12.4. then out of no where it will pop back up to the 14V range. now i'm thinking, the alternator shuts itself off every once in a while?? to me the switch is quite random, sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't.

now this isn't affecting my current system, but i'm really worried about such voltage drops when i'm running 1400W on my car. the only upgrade i was looking into was a 0 awg Big 3 and power/ground wires for the amps. would my system dropping into the 12V range be harmful for the 1400W system? have you guys heard of this problem before? how can i "fix" my car so that it doesnt dip into the 12V range when the car is running??

appreciate any constructive responses!! thanks guys.
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Old May 8th, 2007, 11:10 PM   #2
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bump? anyone?? really?
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Old May 9th, 2007, 02:15 AM   #3
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when your accessories turn on, the voltage will drop for a second. sit in your can while parked and turn on the blower with cold air...then hit the a/c switch.

hit 2 window switches and watch your headlights dim...

the rule for selecting amps for use on the street is 125% of the alternator's rated value. figure out what the amps voltage draws are. some 60x4 amps draw 100A while some 500x1 amps draw 30. dont just look at output...
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Old May 9th, 2007, 02:28 AM   #4
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just wondering, where can i find the rated output for my alternator?
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Old May 9th, 2007, 11:05 AM   #5
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if you look around the net for an oem replacement, you should be able to find it, if its not listed in the 7th gen section.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 04:16 PM   #6
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the voltage does drop, but it will drop from 13.8 to 13.7. i'm talking random dropping to the low 12V's, which is a non-alternator voltage range.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 07:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droopy
the voltage does drop, but it will drop from 13.8 to 13.7. i'm talking random dropping to the low 12V's, which is a non-alternator voltage range.
Mine does this too, its done it since i can remember monitoring it in some way... I have a underdrive pulley tho, maybie thats why? anyways, its fine... let it go, no bigges

E
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Old May 9th, 2007, 09:58 PM   #8
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mine used to that but i had the crappy delphi alternator, tossed that piece of **** due to my voltage dropping into the 11's, i went out and got a 2002 honda odyssey alternator from car-part.com for $40, and now i get constant 14.2 even with the all the lights on and 13.8 with the a/c. i also have a huge ground wire kit using 0 ga. i suggest getting that alternator rather than one of those high output alternators that only put out high amperage at 2000 rpms. hold this helps
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Old May 10th, 2007, 02:26 AM   #9
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great!! thanks, with 1400W's, a stronger "stock" alternator might not be bad, i've heard some horror stories about aftermarket alternators. thanks guys. =)
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Old June 7th, 2007, 12:14 AM   #10
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i was drawing around 200-260 amps peak for nearly two months on my oem alternator, and it handled it ok.. it died 3 months later :/

Thats alot of power for a car to take, and the thing kept above 10v, so thats good

E
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Old June 11th, 2007, 03:31 PM   #11
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4gauge wiring wont cut it when you do the upgrade... should consider some 0gauge wires... knuceptz and kicker hyper flex wires are great for what they do
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Old June 11th, 2007, 06:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champaned_out
4gauge wiring wont cut it when you do the upgrade... should consider some 0gauge wires... knuceptz and kicker hyper flex wires are great for what they do
4ga is allready massive in comparison to the 8ga stock. And i see little need to hassle with snakeing a 0ga off the alternator. Now, if your talking about wiring to the amp, hells yea, 0ga or lower is key. But, thats beacouse the amp would be connected to the battery wich auctuallly has stored power thats enough to quench the amps thirst, where the alternator just puts out a max current that wouldnt really benifit from a 0ga compared to a 4ga....

But, for the amp, thicker is allways better, and any less than 4ga is stupid. I have two 8ga's going to my 200w amp for the normal speakers...

E
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Old June 11th, 2007, 10:32 PM   #13
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sorry to hear about your alternator. i'm still waiting on my 1400W system, should be in by end of summer. going to do the big three and wiring in 1/0 guage. =)

btw, i have the 2005 v6 3.0 L. is there a honda alternator that has more output that can be swapped out? i know the 6th gens take the odyssey ones... do i have that kind of option?
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Old June 11th, 2007, 10:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericspda
4ga is allready massive in comparison to the 8ga stock. And i see little need to hassle with snakeing a 0ga off the alternator. Now, if your talking about wiring to the amp, hells yea, 0ga or lower is key. But, thats beacouse the amp would be connected to the battery wich auctuallly has stored power thats enough to quench the amps thirst, where the alternator just puts out a max current that wouldnt really benifit from a 0ga compared to a 4ga....

But, for the amp, thicker is allways better, and any less than 4ga is stupid. I have two 8ga's going to my 200w amp for the normal speakers...

E
well if your comparing 8gauge with 4 then yea its a big difference, and i made a error in my previous post.. i meant 2gauge not 0... 0 would be overkill and for monster setups
1200-1400w on 4gauge wires would be safe, but no room for upgrade

Power Wire:

10 gauge: ~35 amperes
Class D (~70% efficiency) - <350 watts
Class A/B (~50% efficiency) - <250 watts

8 gauge: ~55 amperes
Class D (~70% efficiency) - <550 watts
Class A/B (~50% efficiency) - <400 watts

6 gauge: ~87 amperes
Class D (~70% efficiency) - <875 watts
Class A/B (~50% efficiency) - <625 watts

4 gauge: ~140 amperes
Class D (~70% efficiency) - <1400 watts
Class A/B (~50% efficiency) - <1000 watts

2 gauge: ~220 amperes
Class D (~70% efficiency) - <2200 watts
Class A/B (~50% efficiency) - <1500 watts

1/0 gauge: ~350 amperes
Class D (~70% efficiency) - <3500 watts
Class A/B (~50% efficiency) - <2500 watts

2/0 gauge: ~440 amperes
Class D (~70% efficiency) - <4400 watts
Class A/B (~50% efficiency) - <3000 watts

4/0 gauge: ~700 amperes
Class D (~70% efficiency) - <7000 watts
Class A/B (~50% efficiency) - <5000 watts


oh yea and the BIG 3 would definatly help your overall electrical syatem out.. less dimming and less stress on your alt

Last edited by Champaned_out; June 11th, 2007 at 11:03 PM..
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Old June 12th, 2007, 12:25 AM   #15
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^ haha, ok.. i was like.. 0? uhhh thats not fitting into ANY terminals on the amp or the battery.. haha...

2 is quite a chunky wire, but i used 1/0 hexane coated wire on my past 'monster' setup... It was a 1600w rms amp @2ohms... Stable down to 1ohm (suposedly) but, i ran it a 2/3 of a ohm Thats like 3,600 some RMS watts.. haha... it ate the 1/0 wire's bandwidth all the friggn time.. but i couldnt find any way to snake a thicker , and heavier wire through the car without running it underneath, and the thing somehow magically JUST fit into the terminals on the amp as is... thicker would be madness, and the dam 38 ft of 1/0 allready weighed my car down a good 80lbs... seriously, thats was some HEAVY wire... god... DAM those were some huge terminals.... And yes, seeing 4/0 in home depot gets me all giddy...

oh, and according to your data, the 4ga on the alternator would make it up to par with what its rated to put out.. 8ga on a alternator is bad, but i know some people who put like 12ga wires on alternators.... and its like that stock! jeezus....

E

Last edited by ericspda; June 12th, 2007 at 12:27 AM..
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Old June 12th, 2007, 12:31 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droopy
sorry to hear about your alternator. i'm still waiting on my 1400W system, should be in by end of summer. going to do the big three and wiring in 1/0 guage. =)

btw, i have the 2005 v6 3.0 L. is there a honda alternator that has more output that can be swapped out? i know the 6th gens take the odyssey ones... do i have that kind of option?
Kooolio, someone who knows 1/0 is where its at! I dont know if you have one of the good alternators, but if you dont have the stupidly poor built alterenators like 6th gens do, then you dont really need one rated for more power, it should last reguardless... Its just the crappy ones that blow from abuse. My friend had a 91 accord with 200 some thousand on it, origional alternator, and he was abusing it continously with a 1200watt amp constantly clipping, running on 2ga. the thing lasted over a year, then he hit someone, and cracked the front bumper and broke the radiator... So, thats basically totaled then.... $200 repair right there.....

E
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Old June 12th, 2007, 01:06 AM   #17
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hahaha, constantly clipping. O.o thanks for the replies, we'll see how long my alternator lasts then =P
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Old June 12th, 2007, 01:07 PM   #18
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output watts dont matter when measuring stress on the alternator. the data the eugene posted is fine for normal amps and the majority out there. BUT ive seen some 50x4 amps fused for 100A heres an example of a PPI amp rated for 800x1 with a 140A max draw but only a 100A fuse (and somewhat close to the OP's "1400w" amp). my 300w amp has 25Ax2 and my 60x2 full range amp has a 30.

while fuses do not equal power consumption, they are a good indicator and a good starting point. rule for the street: "alternator amps + 25% of its rated output = how many amps your system should draw."

so with our stock alternator putting out 90A it goes into the equation:

90A + 22.5A = 112.5A

i have "80A" worth of draw at full power (plus an epicenter, but i have no idea what it draws ) with no dimming issues.
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Old June 12th, 2007, 01:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droopy
Hey guys, need some info/suggestions... it's a 2005 accord coupe v6 auto. i am currently running a 600W system with 200W up front and 400W sub (eD 13kv.2). over summer the sub is becming a 13 av.2 with a 1200W amp (nine.1) into a 1400W. so i wanted to make sure that my car can handle the madness.

in the spirit of being prepared, i have a yellow top and a "ground stabilizer" from SUN automotive that i picked up when i was visiting tokyo. i have a voltmeter that i've attached to one of the ground stabilizer ends and the fuse block for the 4 gauge that goes to my amps. my system runs anywhere from 13.7 to 14.1, and i thought life was good.

but every once in a while, my system voltage drops. to 12.1 - 12.4. then out of no where it will pop back up to the 14V range. now i'm thinking, the alternator shuts itself off every once in a while?? to me the switch is quite random, sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't.

now this isn't affecting my current system, but i'm really worried about such voltage drops when i'm running 1400W on my car. the only upgrade i was looking into was a 0 awg Big 3 and power/ground wires for the amps. would my system dropping into the 12V range be harmful for the 1400W system? have you guys heard of this problem before? how can i "fix" my car so that it doesnt dip into the 12V range when the car is running??

appreciate any constructive responses!! thanks guys.
Ok, here we go, and yes I am an EE..

1st upgrade the battery to an Optima, they have a much faster discharge rate than most batteries and will help the voltage stability.

Next, the voltage regulator is built into your alternator and has a protection circuit that cuts when overloaded, this is probably what you are seeing, so yes I would upgrade the Alternator to one from eaither a Pilot, Oddessy, or maybe a MDX.

Next, get a decent cap on the system, 5+ farad. The capacitor acts as a power resevoir, when the big bass hits and pulls hard on the system, the cap will help greatly to keep things up and not allow the current rush to hit the alternator like a sledge hammer.

Bigger wire, as other have said you can get by with the 4GA, but with what you have planned I would strongly suggest 1/0 from the frontt o the back and then break it out 4GA to each amp. Also upgrade the ground from the battery to chassis to 1/0 also, or 2 4GA strands running to different chassis ground locations (Not the engine.)

Power Path, the battery should be the center of current draw, not the alternator, again you want the battery and cap to act as a buffer between your system and the alternator. So it should be Positive Battery terminal to Alternator (Upgrade this to 4GA), then battery to capacitor to distribution block to amps.

Good grounds are also esential to a good install, a heavy ground lug BOLTED (Not sheet metal screwed) with star washers to clean bare metal.

Hope this helps.
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Old June 12th, 2007, 01:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan s
output watts dont matter when measuring stress on the alternator. the data the eugene posted is fine for normal amps and the majority out there. BUT ive seen some 50x4 amps fused for 100A heres an example of a PPI amp rated for 800x1 with a 140A max draw but only a 100A fuse (and somewhat close to the OP's "1400w" amp). my 300w amp has 25Ax2 and my 60x2 full range amp has a 30.

while fuses do not equal power consumption, they are a good indicator and a good starting point. rule for the street: "alternator amps + 25% of its rated output = how many amps your system should draw."

so with our stock alternator putting out 90A it goes into the equation:

90A + 22.5A = 112.5A

i have "80A" worth of draw at full power (plus an epicenter, but i have no idea what it draws ) with no dimming issues.
If by epiacenter you mean a Carputer, then the main board typically only draws 24Watts, add 5 Watts for a 7" LCD, another 3-5 for a 2.5" hard drive, and another 2-4 Watts for ram.
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Old June 12th, 2007, 03:37 PM   #21
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thanx for the great post nva-av6. you happen to know which of those stock alternators (pilot, odyssey, etc.) has greater output but is bolt on replaceable to the 7th gen 3.0 v6? will most likely need another belt, but that's easily done.
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Old June 13th, 2007, 02:38 AM   #22
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NVA-AV6: ive got an audiocontrol epicenter. it probably says it somewhere on their website...ill look later.

finally, another believer in the capacitor lol

droopy: possibly search around the 7th gen section for your answer. if you cant find it there, maybe create a thread inside since it seems no one who looks in here knows...wish i could be of more help
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Old June 13th, 2007, 06:24 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droopy
thanx for the great post nva-av6. you happen to know which of those stock alternators (pilot, odyssey, etc.) has greater output but is bolt on replaceable to the 7th gen 3.0 v6? will most likely need another belt, but that's easily done.
I will have to look around a little to see the specs of each, but I doubt you will need a belt, just move the pully to the new Alt.
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Old June 13th, 2007, 10:21 AM   #24
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yea, i've been searching the 7th gen section like mad, but there's not do depth of information about electronic components there. I'm going to do the big three and keep an eye on my alternator for now. no offense to you guys, but this one's not a believer of caps =) at least the alternator's a denso, i've heard some horror stories about the delphi.

thanks for all your advice guys, maybe the thicker wires will fix the alternator issue? i just ordered some 1/0 from knukonceptz, so will come back here to update in a week or two ^_^
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Old June 23rd, 2007, 06:20 PM   #25
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as long as it does not drop into the single digt. its ok.
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