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Old July 9th, 2003, 11:41 PM   #1
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New Dyno Runs - 202.4 whp NA

Ok guys, lemme tell you, it's like being a kid at a candy store when you have a Dynojet Dynometer all to yourself and can do as many runs as your little heart pleases for a couple hours. These runs were done "for my class lab" of Air induction systems, at UTI. Basically our instructor allowed us to bring in our cars and dyno them, when what we're really supposed to be doing is taking their "modified" cars such as their blown Mustang Fox 5.0 and modified 4.6 liter and NOS'd GSR and Camaro's and run them on the dyno and tune them.

So, first two cars on the dyno's were my friend Niels mom's Corvette Z06. 405bhp claimed. Ended up running first 328whp and peaking at about 334whp. Assuming 15% drivetrain loss for a manual, 405bhp should be about 344bhp. Next across the way was my friend Nicks '67 Ford Falcon or some year, with some or another small block Ford motor. He had just upgraded the valve springs, and was eager to try out the new redline of 6000 rpms from 5500 rpms when he last ran a 194 whp. Ended up running 196 first run, and topped out at 202.8whp with timing adjustments and taking his power steering pulley belt off.

While he was doing that, my friend with his 2000 Civic Si ran with an AEM CAI. First run was 128whp and next run was 130. That was it for him. Got my car on, and while Nick was making adjustments, started my runs. Started with 196whp, and then Nick and I got kinda into a HP war. He started climbing from 196 to 197, then 199, I went from 196 to various numbers, peaked at 199, came back down, and that's when he took of his ps belt and attained 202. I let the car cool down, changed my filter to a WR Racing filter, and tried again. Second to final run was 202.4 whp. And that was my best. Now here are the dynos...


This is my friends Civic Si....
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Old July 9th, 2003, 11:49 PM   #2
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Nice dyno! I think you get the highest number (hp) for a N/A 6gen AV6.
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Old July 9th, 2003, 11:52 PM   #3
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Congrats Chad!!!!

You have now joined the exclusive 6th Gen 200 whp NA club.

Nice work!
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Old July 9th, 2003, 11:54 PM   #4
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whats your mod list?
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Old July 10th, 2003, 12:59 AM   #5
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Now here's my Accord.

Run#6 (My First run but overall #6 since the Z06 was #1/2/3, and the Si was #4/5)

VTEC: 4500 rpms, Manifold: 3500 rpms, FPR: 36 psi

V-AFC was set with -1% Fuel corrections on high cam and 0% corrections on low cam.

Run#7 No changes

Run #8: I've felt it on the freeway when the manifold valve doesn't engage, now I have a dyno of what it's like when the center plenum is seperated all the way to redline. Notice how it can't produce power at 3600 and up. It just tumbles. Very important to have the Valve opening the plenum for both banks of cylinders to utilize.
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Old July 10th, 2003, 01:07 AM   #6
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Run #9: VTEC = 4200 Manifold = 3600 FPR = 36psi

VAFC Settings: I believe I brought these back up to 0% to see if enrichening it back to normal would produce results. It didn't.

Run #10: VTEC = 4200 Manifold = Brought these back down to specific points of leaning correction.

3500: -1 4000: -2 4500: -2 5000: -2 5500: -3 6000: -4 6500: -5

First run of 199.
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Old July 10th, 2003, 01:14 AM   #7
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Run #11: VTEC = 4200 Manifold = 3600 FPR = 36psi

VAFC:

3500: -1 4000: -2 4500: -3 5000: -4 5500: -5 6000: -6 6500:-7

Started to lose power, leaned it too far possibly, or possibly just too hot.

Run #12: VTEC = 4200 Manifold = 3600 FPR = 36psi

VAFC:

3500: -1 4000: -1 4500: -2 5000:-3 5500: -4 6000: -5 6500: -6

This run I wanted to back off on the leaning, but lean it one point each above what I had on the 199 run. Still didn't do as good.
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Old July 10th, 2003, 01:20 AM   #8
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Run#13: Pretty much the same, though I believe I set the settings back to the 199 level on the VAFC of -1 -2 -2 -2 -3 -4 -5, and set the Manifold to 3700 and set VTEC fuel correction on the VAFC to -2%. This allows the VAFC to compensate for the fact that the ECU still enrichens the mixture at 3500 rpms eventhough the High Cam won't come on until 4200 rpms. Honestly don't know how low or high I should go with this, cause this is something I've never seen shop tuners do.

Run #14: I believe the same, only VAFC correction at -4%. This could've also been for Run#15/16 coming up, don't remember. Doesn't matter though, numbers pretty much the same.
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Old July 10th, 2003, 01:22 AM   #9
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Run #15/16: Pretty much the same as above. However the guys wanted to play around with routing cold air to the car from the dyno room which was heavily Air conditioned, so they ran exhaust hosing from my intake and through it over the piping without a filter, and then used some type of metal scoop with a pipe attached and held it up to the AC duct and routed air to the intake. Didn't do anygood, I think the car was pulling more air than the AC could supply and it was just basically suffocating it.

I should've played with VTEC engagement more, I have to figure out what the hell is up with that serious dip in the power band. There so many things to consider around that area, the Manifold engagement, the VAFC VTEC setting point, and the ECU's Fuel Map enrichment for 3500 rpms kicking in.
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Old July 10th, 2003, 01:27 AM   #10
 
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can you give us your mod. list? I want to know how to get 200 whp.
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Old July 10th, 2003, 01:32 AM   #11
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Last two runs:

Run #17: Same settings, let the car seriously cool off, installed my Black filter from Weapon R that's supposed to be a "racing filter", though it looks pretty much the same as my red filter from them, only that it's SLIGHTLY more see through, so I assume less restriction but I'm betting it's BS and it's the same damn filter. Why I have two of them is another story. Aimed the intake piping up this time to simulate "driving on the road" as they say in SCC.


Run #18:

Same shia I believe, don't remember if I changed anything. Probably did.

And that's that.

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Old July 10th, 2003, 01:39 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by iLLeGaLaKKoRD on July 9th, 2003 at 10:54 PM

whats your mod list?
Quote:
Originally posted by aznpnoy562 on July 10th, 2003 at 12:27 AM

can you give us your mod. list? I want to know how to get 200 whp.
Mod List:

Weapon R F1 Spec Intake w/Dragon Filter
Weapon R Adjustable FPR
Nology HotWires
Nology Silverstone Spark Plugs
Nology Powercore Ignition Amplifier
Comptech Headers
CL-S Camshafts
CL-S 63mm Throttle Body
CL-S Intake Manifold
Unorthodox Racing Underdrive Pulley Set
Tanabe Dual Hyper Medallion Cat-Back Exhaust
Apex'i V-AFC
Apex'i Rev/Speed Meter for Plenum Valve Adjustment

The rest of my modifications wouldn't affect power...

And here's all the dyno's put together.
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Old July 10th, 2003, 02:00 AM   #13
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Very nicely done post Chad. And congrats on yielding 6hp and 5lb/ft on your tuning. Your reward: Tune my car.
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Old July 10th, 2003, 02:09 AM   #14
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Chad,
What mods would you recommend and not recommend anyways. I'm curious of the plugs, TB, and FPR.
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Old July 10th, 2003, 02:46 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doom878 on July 10th, 2003 at 01:00 AM

Very nicely done post Chad. And congrats on yielding 6hp and 5lb/ft on your tuning. Your reward: Tune my car.
Now I need to take it to a REAL Tuner. I know there's much more that can be done, especially that dip problem. I don't think you want me tuning your car
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Old July 10th, 2003, 02:57 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doom878 on July 10th, 2003 at 01:09 AM

Chad,
What mods would you recommend and not recommend anyways. I'm curious of the plugs, TB, and FPR.
I'm a bit iffy on the plugs. I didn't notice any difference ( I don't think you really would anyways on just plugs unless your original ones were fouled) and I don't have any dyno results to back them up. BNut has at least actually had dyno results to back up the Densos. So I'd probably stick with what's tried and true. I just prefer the whole Nology package.

But if MSD made a whole package for us (Wires, plugs, Distributor, amplifier, ignition module) I'd definitely switch. We seriously need ignition timing tunability. With every single modification that we did to SB Chevy 350 V8's, the timing was ALWAYS changed after every mod to take advantage of what was done.

This is a SERIOUS drawback in my opinion on our cars, and I think it has been proven with MoMoney's 210whp and J30A1 (I believe that's what his name was) 205whp with the Unichip ignition timing function.

Throttle Body, we discussed this at the so cali meet, and people seem to believe the 63mm CL-S TB is the way to go, though I could've sworn that guy from Puerto Rico that originally did the Manifold swap said the best bet is the TL/CL 60mm TB. Frankly, I feel that if you DO go with the humongo 63mm one, you really need to get it port matched to the stock intake manifold, and probably have the manifold extrude honed to take full advantage of having the ability to injest more air into the plenum. And make sure the intake piping of your system is ATLEAST the same diameter or larger than the Throttle Body. It does no good for Air Velocity as well as Flow to have a small tube, than open to a large area, than back down to small tubing again (Intake, TB, Manifold).

And I still don't recommend the manifold. It's just too much money. And that way I can be the only lowly Accord with it

So that's about it. I'd really like to see what I could do with Ignition Timing play.
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Old July 10th, 2003, 03:04 AM   #17
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Yeah us DIS guys are kinda screwed with ignition. MSD has a DIS package but for coil pack autos only.

You didn't comment on FPR. Was it advantageous for tuning?
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Old July 10th, 2003, 03:29 AM   #18
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Ah, the FPR. I'm still up in the air on this as well. I think for the most part, if you go with an Electronic Fuel Controller, you won't need an FPR. About the only time I think I'd recommend an FPR is if your fuel requirements really drastically change, and that means new fuel pump, and possibly new injectors, basically upgrading the entire fuel system. I think you know what I'm getting at here (Induction that's in the nature of being forced...)

Today, I basically totally forgot about it. It would've been nice to see what I could do with it. I should have more chances on the dyno this friday or next week.
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Old July 10th, 2003, 04:32 AM   #19
 
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Very well done.

Now only if I could get my hands on a dyno like this for that long
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Old July 10th, 2003, 04:37 AM   #20
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Nice. If only my AV6 can run 200+ whp NA . What's going on between 4,200-4,800 RPM range, I notice a huge dip?
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Old July 10th, 2003, 04:56 AM   #21
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Awesome very well put and thanks for posting the dynos!
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Old July 10th, 2003, 05:43 AM   #22
 
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Great job, you have provided hope for all those bolt on folks.
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Old July 10th, 2003, 10:56 AM   #23
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Congrats on breaking the 200hp barrier. I noticed your torque numbers seem kinda low.
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Old July 10th, 2003, 10:14 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlackV62K2 on July 10th, 2003 at 03:37 AM

Nice. If only my AV6 can run 200+ whp NA . What's going on between 4,200-4,800 RPM range, I notice a huge dip?
Quote:
Originally posted by -=SoCalV6=- on July 10th, 2003 at 01:46 AM

Now I need to take it to a REAL Tuner. I know there's much more that can be done, especially that dip problem. I don't think you want me tuning your car
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Old July 10th, 2003, 10:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by wicked euros on July 10th, 2003 at 09:56 AM

Congrats on breaking the 200hp barrier. I noticed your torque numbers seem kinda low.
Indeed they do. I'd expect at least 170 ft-lbs, but I have a feeling that dip is taking away some potential to produce the 160+ torque earlier on in the power band, but really I don't know. And why peak torque production is as high as peak hp is something else that's interesting. This "dip" didn't show up as drastically in my previous dyno at GT Motorsports but it was definitely there, and it was also prevalent in my screwy SP Engineering dyno. It has to have something to do with the Intake Manifold because I didn't have this dip before it.
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Old July 10th, 2003, 11:01 PM   #26
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Pay no mind to the torque numbers, and probably the hp numbers, as the rpms that they occur at are wrong. I have no idea what they did to get these numbers back there. But the dip in the powerband is probably the same one that I'm having now so I don't doubt that's real any longer as well as NOT being the tranny shifting since the same occured to me at UTI every single dyno run, and every run was in 2nd, NO SHIFTING.
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Old July 10th, 2003, 11:12 PM   #27
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Ah, and my old old Atomic Performance dyno, back with Headers, Intake, Exhaust, FPR, Wires....
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Old July 10th, 2003, 11:30 PM   #28
 
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CONGRATS!!!!!!
The best I hit all motor was 201whp when I had my Accord. My average was like 197 but I hit a PEAK of 201 on one run! I also ran on a dyno jet.
I had:
AEM CAI
OBX Headers
Straight Exhaust (no cat nothing just 2 tananbe muffler)
NGK Plugs
AEM P/S Pully
Field V-AFC (dyno tuned)
The V-AFC is what got me the high numbers I gained about 18whp once I got it tuned. My tunner is the SHIZNIT
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Old July 10th, 2003, 11:54 PM   #29
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Send him over MY WAY MAN!!! And thanx for the congrats, it took you less mods to reach the same place.
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Old July 11th, 2003, 12:05 AM   #30
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A variable intake manifold lets you produce torque over a broader range, but with the tradeoff of not being able to produce quite as much peak torque.

A non-variable setup will allow for more peak torque, but not over as broad of a range.

I have some dynos that show this for the Nissan VQ30DE, but my host is all screwy right now so I can't link them.

Additional observations:

The F20C in the S2000 is tuned for all-out top-end torque without much regard for having a broad powerband and does NOT use a variable intake manifold. It uses a single-stage top-end biased setup. Ditto for the K20 variant in the RSX Type-S.

The regular RSX however DOES have a variable intake manifold. The engine is tuned for better daily driving which requires torque over a broader range, so a variable IM is used.


Once my host clears up I'll see if I can post up those dynos.
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