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Old September 25th, 2003, 05:32 PM   #1
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what do u guys think about the mazda 6 in terms of power?

I have driven one before. well test drive..
I heard that it's a ford engine with 220hp. So this is what I was thinking
american engine --> good low end torque
+ 220 hp --------------> good high end power
------------------------------------------------------------
A powerful car


However, when i drove it, it's not that powerful.
The low end is just like my 200hp accord, just that it doesn't have the VTEC boost at 2500 rpm.
After I got up to 2500 rpm, the mazda gives me less power all over the rpm range. I don't know how it can have 220 hp at any rpm.

However, the handling should be really good. I was driving with a female dealer beside me, so I didn't spin the car around. However, in some turns, the car feel really stable.
(My accord has CLS sway and it feel pretty much the same at that kind of turns)
Too bad i didn't spin it around. I heard that the mazda 6 handles liek the new 2003 accord. I wonder if it's true.
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Old September 25th, 2003, 07:18 PM   #2
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Not to start anything but I have heard (rumor) that the Mazda 6s engine was overrated.

Still the car handles great and is a nice car both inside and out. It's just missing some (a little bit) power. Sounds like the TSX. Still nothing wrong with that.



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Old September 25th, 2003, 07:41 PM   #3
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It was rated a bit screwy...

220 hp is more like 210hp =
192 tq is more like 202tq =

Of the two, the torque is much more important, so it's actually better the way it is in reality than how it was rated on paper.

As for the low-end, there is a nasty dip in the torque curve below 2700 rpm because of a tumbler valve that opens in the intake manifold which creates turbulence and increases combustion efficiency at lower revs. At the cost of low-end torque. Sorta like on the J30A1 with its VTEC-E. Above that the torque curve is flat from 2700 rpm all the way up top. You really do need the manual tranny to fully enjoy the car and engine, though. The automatic is not any quicker than a 6th Gen AV6.
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Old September 25th, 2003, 07:46 PM   #4
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Thanks for that clearing up Stevtec.

A Mazda 6s, as fast as us (6th gen owners) in the straights. In the curves our 6th gen's (stock) are owned .



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Old September 26th, 2003, 10:45 AM   #5
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the v6 is NOT a ford engine.. it's a duratec engine... and a lot of people say a lot of **** about everyone's engine just because they're biased...

mazda's don't have VTEC so you're not going to get your VTEC boost... that's a honda/acura thing... even toyota calles it something different... now if what you're looking for is variable timing it doesn't really have a specific place where it kicks in like honda does... but i can't get mine to kick in around 4000 RPMs... usually it will kick in later... depends on how i'm driving... even my 99 prelude VTEC didn't kick in til about 5000 RPMs...

when a manufacturer states horsepower it's the engine itself... the horsepower to the wheels will always differ from EVERY manufacturer... the thing to look for is if it's off more than others... if you want to check out more topics on the dynos, you can see what we've talked about at the mazda6 board http://www.mazda6club.com/forums/board.php?FID=46

handling... can be improved... eibach has a kit out.. i think koni and tein are in R&D... duratec had headers and is working on a full cat-back, turb and intake... i think AEM might've or is coming out with something soon...

this board is a majority of hondas... so you're not likely to find much on technical info about a mazda...
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Old September 26th, 2003, 11:20 AM   #6
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Ford does make Duratec engines. I don't have a lot of time to research this now but here is an article I found.



FORD REVEALS NEW DURATECH V6
LIMA, Ohio, July 15, 2003 ó Ford Motor Company announced it is investing $335 million in its Lima (Ohio) Engine Plant to build an all-new, modern fuel-efficient 3.5-liter V-6 engine. The sophisticated, all-aluminum dual-overhead-cam (DOHC) 24-valve Duratec 35 V-6 engine will power a variety of future Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vehicles, including passenger cars and crossover vehicles. Annual production capacity is projected to be up to 325,000 engines a year. Production of the new engine will begin at the Lima plant by the end of 2005.
"This new V-6 will be cutting edge, truly world-class," said Dave Szczupak, vice president, Powertrain Operations, Ford Motor Company. "Our engineers started with a clean sheet of paper to develop this new engine. It will power a variety of vehicles and includes advanced technologies such as variable-valve timing, a feature we are adding to a significant number of all our engines."
A feature favored by many environmentalists, variable-valve timing helps to reduce emissions, improve fuel efficiency as well as idle smoothness, while at the same time maximizing performance. The variable-valve mechanism works by precisely controlling the engineís camshaft position at any given millisecond based on engine speed and load. The investment at the Lima Engine Plant continues Fordís move to a new cost-effective and quality-enhancing global flexible manufacturing system to build powertrains. At Lima, Ford will install a new engine assembly line, a new cylinder-block machining line, a new cylinder-head machining line as well as a new crankshaft line.
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Old September 26th, 2003, 11:56 AM   #7
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okie apparantly i got it wrong.. i thought ford bought the duratec engines and stuck it in there... and mazda tuned it... but here's the complete thread on it.. including posts from our duratec sponser himself on page 2...

http://www.mazda6club.com/forums/rea...ID=5154&page=1
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Old September 26th, 2003, 02:52 PM   #8
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Actually A10ZA03 you're not entirely wrong, but not entirely right. The Duratec BLOCK is manufactured by Ford, they use it in a lot fo their cars, famously the SHO Contour for instance. However, in the mazda6, the only think that is Ford about the engine is just about the block, everything else either mazda tweaked or entirely designed by them.
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Old September 26th, 2003, 05:42 PM   #9
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Ford duratec v6's are in conturs, tarus's, cougars, and the escape to name a few, in 2.5 and 3.0 sizes.

The 3.0 in the mazda is based on the tarus 3.0, but with variable cam timing and different internal specs.
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Old September 27th, 2003, 10:00 PM   #10
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Actually...i can feel the power above 2500rpms in my 6...it freakin takes off when i hit that part in the rpm range, and i have the auto too. Trust me, the auto isn't all that bad, as A10ZA03 can attest to. I can beat PLENTY of cars on the street....but i haven't raced either a 6th or 7th gen V6 Accord yet. Yep, and the aftermarket is picking up on the 6 too...the Injen and AEM intakes are gonna be out next month and a whole bunch of stuff is gonna be shown at SEMA.
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Old October 1st, 2003, 04:24 PM   #11
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wow.. u felt power above 2500?
when i drove it, iot felt power above 3000 only..
rpm below 3000 is powerless

then after 3500, it feels like ****.. since i didn't feel the vtec kicking in..

errr...
i was expecting soo much from that engine.. well.. sort of..
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Old October 1st, 2003, 04:37 PM   #12
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According to our faithfull facts man SteVTEC, the 3.0 in the mazda6 has butterfly valves in the intake that improve emissions but absolutley KILL the torque curve below 2500rpm, and after that it picks back up and stays pretty flat. Sounds to me CaliAtenza has an exellent butt dyno!
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Old October 1st, 2003, 05:44 PM   #13
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i drove the v6 auto and it just sucked, no fancy explanation needed.
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Old October 1st, 2003, 06:03 PM   #14
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Maybe I'm just used to an old, crappy V6, but when I TDed the 6s auto, it was quite impressive. Its all relative what you're used to. come down from a V8 manual, or even auto, or some super nice German engineered V6 with CVT or manual tranny and it just won't compare. But stepping up from the V6 rodeo, the 6s auto is a dream. Not that I will get it, manual all the way for me. I don't really know what more you all expect from a sub-25K sports sedan...
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Old October 6th, 2003, 10:09 PM   #15
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Here is a Mazda 6 Dyno:



165hp
158tq

with slight modifications

182hp
172tq

Pulled from this site:

http://www.msdsinc.com/new_mazda6chart.htm
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Old October 7th, 2003, 12:56 AM   #16
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I see those as decent numbers, the BMW 325i puts out a rated 184 hp on a 2.5L inline 6, which is 73.6 hp per liter, and the mazda 6's engine puts out a rated 220 hp on a 3.0L v6, which is 73.3 hp per liter. I don't hear complaints about the Bimmer, so why should there be any about the 6?
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Old October 7th, 2003, 01:12 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mazda_Gremlyn on October 7th, 2003 at 02:56 AM

I see those as decent numbers, the BMW 325i puts out a rated 184 hp on a 2.5L inline 6, which is 73.6 hp per liter, and the mazda 6's engine puts out a rated 220 hp on a 3.0L v6, which is 73.3 hp per liter. I don't hear complaints about the Bimmer, so why should there be any about the 6?
Cause the 325i is RWD so that makes a difference as well. If the Mazda 6s was RWD then that would be a different story .



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Old October 7th, 2003, 01:15 AM   #18
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I don't think it makes THAT much difference in terms of power felt. If you were to pick between the two for a dragster choice, then the RWD would be best, but for daily driving, there is very little noticeable difference (driven both cars auto, though admittedly not for an extended period of time).
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Old October 14th, 2003, 07:01 PM   #19
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From what I read, the M6 engine is not a Ford engine, its actually a Mazda engine, BUT they did use the Ford heads and one other parts from Ford that I don't remember... the rest are Mazda's parts.

I believe what A10ZA03 saying about something kicks in at 4k, is the VRIS (Variable Resonance Induction System), in the MX-6 that's what it is, I don't know if they still keep that system in the M6. Yea the auto kill the performance, as usual And for 220HP, that's just the U.S Spec, not the best model, I wonder if we can get the 276HP turbo charged w/6-Spd AWD Euro version into the state
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Old October 14th, 2003, 08:43 PM   #20
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Is it worth it to go from a 6g v6 to a Mazda 6s?
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Old October 14th, 2003, 09:15 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZE Power MX6
And for 220HP, that's just the U.S Spec, not the best model, I wonder if we can get the 276HP turbo charged w/6-Spd AWD Euro version into the state
I believe what you are reffering to is the MPS Mazda6, which hasn't been released anywhere as of yet, but scheduled for 2005 i believe. The US currently has the only 6 with 6 cylinders and/or over 200 hp. In japan, Europe, etc. the best they have is the I-4 engine.
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Old October 15th, 2003, 11:19 PM   #22
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Yea, the MPS Mazda6, and yes they haven't been release yet, but I heard that they won't release it in the U.S due to emission issue. I didn't know we are they only one has the V6 model, first time we have the good stuff haha, guess we learn something new everyday
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Old October 16th, 2003, 02:08 AM   #23
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As far as te US release is concerned, I think Mazda is up in the air still, but leaning towards no current release projected for us Would be nice though!
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Old November 5th, 2003, 08:28 PM   #24
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My thoughts

Quote:
Originally posted by Icen
what do u guys think about the mazda 6 in terms of power?

However, when i drove it, it's not that powerful.
The low end is just like my 200hp accord, just that it doesn't have the VTEC boost at 2500 rpm.
After I got up to 2500 rpm, the mazda gives me less power all over the rpm range. I don't know how it can have 220 hp at any rpm.

However, the handling should be really good. I was driving with a female dealer beside me, so I didn't spin the car around. However, in some turns, the car feel really stable.
(My accord has CLS sway and it feel pretty much the same at that kind of turns)
Too bad i didn't spin it around. I heard that the mazda 6 handles liek the new 2003 accord. I wonder if it's true.

IMO, having looked at the M6, driven both and raced both, it was not for me. My thoughts were:

Style...love it. Little plain inside, but with leather, which is what I wanted, it was nice. Mazda did a good job here.

Tranny.....gotta have the manual. The auto sucks for a sports car. Just like our MPV, it shifts outta first way early unless you hold in in manually and even if memory serves, it shifts at redline on it's own like the TL Type S did.

Power. No comparison to the Gen 7 Accord V6. I've run both, my buddy who sells mazda ran me with a manual and while he kept up better, I still pulled on him from the top of my first gear. Auto's...I've blown a guy that works with me away on many drives into work. He fades from right from my ride hitting 4000rpms and never comes close.

Handling....sweat...I love the Mazda there, but for me....I like my Honda with it's new tires and rims. Better blend of peformance and ride. AGain, that's my liking.

Value. Mazda is less in costs, but not much if any and as a rental car vehicle choice....not for me. If you can rent it, I won't own it. Just me.

Warranty/Reliability....love the 4/50 warranty. That's one of the reasons we chose the MPV vs Honday Oddy. for a family van. Not sure of how reliability compares to a Honda but IMO, Honda may have a longevity / historical edge, but I'm not at all concerned about Mazda's track record.
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Old November 5th, 2003, 09:43 PM   #25
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The only rentals i've heard of werte 4-bangers, and thats because Mazda had some many extras because the V6 sold like wildfire here and the I4 didn't. And you're right, the Mazda is cheaper, has less power than the beefier new 7th gen Accord, but not everyone is a straight-line racer (as you mentioned pdq), many people love driving through the twisties, and you put the Accord against the 6 in a test on those roads, the 6 driver will laughing as he/she watches you slam into the guard-rails in the rear view mirror. Its all preference. Plus the 6 is better looking IMHO.
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Old November 5th, 2003, 10:01 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mazda_Gremlyn
The only rentals i've heard of werte 4-bangers, and thats because Mazda had some many extras because the V6 sold like wildfire here and the I4 didn't. And you're right, the Mazda is cheaper, has less power than the beefier new 7th gen Accord, but not everyone is a straight-line racer (as you mentioned pdq), many people love driving through the twisties, and you put the Accord against the 6 in a test on those roads, the 6 driver will laughing as he/she watches you slam into the guard-rails in the rear view mirror. Its all preference. Plus the 6 is better looking IMHO.
Through the close of Sept. Mazda has only sold 44,966 in the US. Hardly selling like wildfire. Now given the lower number of V6's prolly made, in respect this model, yes....they sold like crazy.

Now the Accord at 314,598 and the Camery at 320,678....on track and selling like crazy.

But you're right, it's all a matter of what one wants.
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Old November 5th, 2003, 11:43 PM   #27
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Well, for a mazda car, thats wildfire, nothing will ever be able to compare to the camry and accord sales in its first year especially.
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Old December 1st, 2003, 04:08 PM   #28
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I have a 2003 Mazda 6, and personally there not all that great of a car, I think they are not all that fast. Personally I like Pontiacs better since my old one was a 12 second car. But I guess I can fix this one up. But the Mazda still looks good. My dad had a 1972 Mazda RX2 that was a 6-7 second car, so that just comes to show that they can be made fast, which is what I plan to do after I deck it out.
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Old December 2nd, 2003, 03:44 AM   #29
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Quote:
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I have a 2003 Mazda 6, and personally there not all that great of a car, I think they are not all that fast. Personally I like Pontiacs better since my old one was a 12 second car. But I guess I can fix this one up. But the Mazda still looks good. My dad had a 1972 Mazda RX2 that was a 6-7 second car, so that just comes to show that they can be made fast, which is what I plan to do after I deck it out.
"if there not all that great of a car", then why did u buy it? Not to be a d--k or anything, were u just looking for speed?
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Old December 2nd, 2003, 01:35 PM   #30
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I agree, didn't you test drive it before you bought it? No one forced you to buy a Mazda6, there must have been soething you liked. else you're not too bright, no offense
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