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Old December 2nd, 2003, 09:06 PM   #1
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Mazda6: First year reliability = Excellent

Hot off the press from Consumer Reports Online...
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Old December 2nd, 2003, 09:34 PM   #2
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Whats that little star next to the Accord?

Does it mean Accord I4's only or what?
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Old December 2nd, 2003, 10:35 PM   #3
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The little * means that the car was redesigned for the previous model year and that the reliability forecast for that model is based on only one year of data whereas usually they use three or so. Since the Accord and Mazda6 were all-new for 2003, the reliability forecast for 2004 for those cars is based only off of 2003 data since any data from the previous generation cars wouldn't be relevant.

CU also tracks different drivetrain configurations such as V6 and I4. If there are significant differences in reliability between the 4-cyl and 6-cyl versions of a car, they'll break it out into separate sub-models and track each one separately. The Camry and Accord are all grouped into one (no significant differences in reliability) but the Altima, Passat, and a few others are broken out into sub-models which means one is likely to be more or less reliable than the other.
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Old December 3rd, 2003, 02:25 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by SteVTEC on December 3rd, 2003 at 12:35 AM

CU also tracks different drivetrain configurations such as V6 and I4. If there are significant differences in reliability between the 4-cyl and 6-cyl versions of a car, they'll break it out into separate sub-models and track each one separately. The Camry and Accord are all grouped into one (no significant differences in reliability) but the Altima, Passat, and a few others are broken out into sub-models which means one is likely to be more or less reliable than the other.
I guess that would mean that its more of a engine/drive train problem when one is more likely to be problematic than the other. IMO is good that the Accord isn't broken into sub categories. To bad there reliability has slipped . But it looks like it will pick up a bit for the 2004 model since there are many TSB's for them. This means that Honda knows there are problems and are fixing them at the source, manufacturing and parts used.



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Old December 3rd, 2003, 12:44 PM   #5
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Go Mazda 6 It's nice to see the underdog come out near the top of the list. It got the high score it deserved and the ugly, poorly-made Accord got the lower score it deserved.

I feel for the Passat, it got a terrible score, especially the 4-cylinder. I guess the turbo is responsible.
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Old December 3rd, 2003, 03:25 PM   #6
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Not really, the VW's have always had reliability problems across all lines. It's actually not a surprise at all.

My friend had one Passat declared a lemon and the 2nd, newer one is starting to rattle, etc... and he's only had it for about one year.

That's why I always avoid VW products...including their vaunted Audi's.

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Old December 3rd, 2003, 04:39 PM   #7
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Yeah VWs are very poorly built. I think they should stop putting their efforts into building fancy W8 and W12 engines that hardly anybody is going to buy and instead try to improve quality. I saw a brand new VW Toureg SUV the other day with temp plates still on it and it already had what sounded like a bad wheel bearing squealing. That's sad. On the Passat, people have had timing belts snap at like 30k miles, tons of ignition issues (bad coils, and the replacements are apparently back ordered for months), and the infamous window motor problems. On top of that, VW service is rock bottom. I think there are a few people here that came from very trouble prone VW products.

I actually wanted to buy a Passat instead of my Accord (V6/manual, more room up front) but after reading about all the reliability issues on VWvortex and JDPA/CU I passed.
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Old December 3rd, 2003, 05:10 PM   #8
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I guess we've been somewhat lucky with our Passat. We have only had two minor issues since we got the car in May 2000. The first was a leak in the rear seat that was caused by a slightly misaligned rear door. It took the dealer a few tries to fix it but they got it done and it hasn't leaked since. The second was caused by my mom. Apparently, she forced the dome light switch in the wrong direction and broke it off That somehow caused a short in the electrical system and disabled the ignition. The dealer towed it in and fixed it for free out of good will even though the warranty expired more than a year earlier. Like I said, we've been lucky *knocks on wood real fast*.

Edit: Oops, I forgot something. I forgot about the car's thirst for oil. It has consumed as much as 3 quarts between oil changes before 2x Lately, it has only consumed about a quart every 3k miles. I guess it's broken in now

So, our VW hasn't been to troublesome but it does like to consume oil at an alarming rate for such a sophisticated engine.
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Old December 3rd, 2003, 07:47 PM   #9
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Old December 3rd, 2003, 08:22 PM   #10
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The drop in reliability for the Passat is actually pretty surprising. For the past 3 years it has been ranked average to above average with the 1.8T having a slight edge over the V6. Now the 1.8T which has always done okay fell to rock bottom!

Hmm...I did some digging at CU.org. The 02 Passat 1.8T had a big ol nasty mark on Ignition (lowest possible score, >15% *yearly* issue rate). That would be the infamous VW failing ignition coils. It also got a (next to lowest rating, 9-15% yearly issue rate) on Electrical. That would be a classic German car issue. They always seem to have horrible electrical systems.

Anyhoo...go Mazda.
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Old December 3rd, 2003, 09:05 PM   #11
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no infiniti
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Old December 3rd, 2003, 09:06 PM   #12
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Infiniti = entry lux = different chart
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Old December 3rd, 2003, 10:22 PM   #13
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Gotta love German cars and their electrical problems

Now that I think about it, my uncle's '00 1.8T has had zero problems in nearly 60k miles. I probably just jinxed him
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Old December 4th, 2003, 07:01 AM   #14
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Strange that the separate the Altima 4cyl from the V6 but don't do it for the 6 or the Accord? Maybe it is becasue this is the first year they have run this data and because it is already relatively limited, they have to do it this way.
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Old December 4th, 2003, 09:40 AM   #15
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Hey stevtec!
Can you post the reliability of the C230k C240 C-Class and that class of cars?

Thank you !

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Old December 5th, 2003, 07:40 AM   #16
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Old December 5th, 2003, 07:05 PM   #17
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I personally think Mazdas have really poor reliablity, fragile as glass, and think they are terribly made cars overall.

Okay, i know i dont have any concrete evidence on this claim, but i own a 1997 Mazda 626, and i'll never buy another Mazda again. Trouble after trouble, and they are very poorly put together. The refinement's simply not there, repairs are never ending. At 80k my lifters on the engine died, and the heads needed rebuilding. That to me is ridiculous, and it's just one of the numberous things that have gone wrong with the car, it's never ending. Yes man will say that i got a lemon, but i doubt it. My friend had a 2000 Protege ES, and that was a pile also.....reliablity, durability just arent there. Mazda makes fashionable, well handling cars, but ever since Ford bought them out(i beleive in the late 80s) their quality went downhill. To me, Mazda is simply a Ford made Japanese car.

I say give the Mazda 6 a few years, and about 60k, and it'll probably fall apart just like a Taurus (i had one of those too in the past). I seriously doubt car companys know how to improve reliability and durability overnight.

Oh yeah, and also i take care of my cars very maticulously..never beat on them, change the oil ever 3k, do all the schedualed mainance, etc. I have a 1995 Accord that i take care in the same exact fashion with 210k, and it runs like a top. Mazda has definetly lost my future buisness.

Sure maybe CR magazine says the new Mazda 6 is reliable, but i strongly feel that car companys dont learn new tricks overnight.
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Old December 6th, 2003, 03:18 PM   #18
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Well Jon2002, my opinion is that Hondas reliability is extremely over-rated. I know two people that have had to put trannys in there Accords in the 40-50k mile range. I also know several people who have Civics that rattle like babys. Both Accord owners that have had to do trannys also have problems with rattling cars. My personal experience with Mazda was with 2 Ford Probes, which were basically Mazdas with Ford sheet metal. I did have some issues with both cars, but nothing unruly. I also don't think you can make statements like Mazda has gone down hill since Ford invested in them. The fact is Mazda would not be here right now unless Ford invested in them. Mazda is still headquarted in Japan, not Detroit. Ford owns what is known as a "controlling interest" in Mazda, not full ownership. Most Mazdas with exception of the 6, B2000 truck and the Tribute are sourced from Japan. The Tribute and B2000 are built in colaboration with Ford (the Escape and Ranger respectively). As far as the Protege goes, do you know that it out did BOTH Civic and Corolla in reliaibility its last two years? Based on my experience with Hondas I wouldn't call them horribly built cars like you did Mazdas, that would be a generalization. Fact is there are bad apples in every bunch. Even if the bunch has an H on the front vs a funky M.
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Old December 9th, 2003, 01:09 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon2002
I personally think Mazdas have really poor reliablity, fragile as glass, and think they are terribly made cars overall.

Okay, i know i dont have any concrete evidence on this claim, but i own a 1997 Mazda 626, and i'll never buy another Mazda again. Trouble after trouble, and they are very poorly put together. The refinement's simply not there, repairs are never ending. At 80k my lifters on the engine died, and the heads needed rebuilding. That to me is ridiculous, and it's just one of the numberous things that have gone wrong with the car, it's never ending. Yes man will say that i got a lemon, but i doubt it. My friend had a 2000 Protege ES, and that was a pile also.....reliablity, durability just arent there. Mazda makes fashionable, well handling cars, but ever since Ford bought them out(i beleive in the late 80s) their quality went downhill. To me, Mazda is simply a Ford made Japanese car.

I say give the Mazda 6 a few years, and about 60k, and it'll probably fall apart just like a Taurus (i had one of those too in the past). I seriously doubt car companys know how to improve reliability and durability overnight.

Oh yeah, and also i take care of my cars very maticulously..never beat on them, change the oil ever 3k, do all the schedualed mainance, etc. I have a 1995 Accord that i take care in the same exact fashion with 210k, and it runs like a top. Mazda has definetly lost my future buisness.

Sure maybe CR magazine says the new Mazda 6 is reliable, but i strongly feel that car companys dont learn new tricks overnight.

No, Mazda is actually more reliable than you thought. What kinda engine did you have on the 626 I4/V6? 5spd/auto? Were you the first owner? The reason I ask is because the I4 seems to have more problems than the V6, and the auto tranny sux just like the Accord tranny, my friend's 99 Accord went through 3 tranny already I personally have a 96 MX-6 V6 5spd w/67k, same engine as the 626's, I don't see any problem on my six even I'm not the first owner. And for the I4, one of my friend has a 4cyl auto six and she never take care of it, car been into 2 accidents w/90+k on the motor and there are barely any problems, maybe some minor problems like axles and etc. She told me that her car never been into the shop before those accidents. I've seen many many 2nd Gen MX-6/626 gone through 150k, 1st Gen MX-6/626 gone through 200k and still running strong. On the Protege, I don't know much about them but few of my friend own Protege and I hear no complain. But Mazda sure didn't improve reliability and durability overnight, their reliability and durability has been around, just look at those super old RX-7's, MX-6's, Miata's... etc. Their rotary engine are well known to be really reliable and powerful, ex. the 20B's and 13B's

Mazda is simply a Ford made Japanese car?? So will that make Volvo be a Ford made German?? Taurus sux yea I know, my mom has one, about to sell it. but you can't compare that garbage with the M6, how about I compare my MX-6 to the Taurus? both V6's and the Taurus has no match with my six in any circumstance... From what I know, the MX-6's and 626's engine are pure Mazda engine, even the Ford Probe use that same engine, only thing different is Ford put that "Ford" valve cover on it and a different tranny. And the newer Mazda6's have total 2 parts from Ford (if I remember right), everything else still make by Mazda and the most important part, they are still design by Mazda engineerer's. You can have a BMW design by German's and build by Mexican and that still won't make that a Mexican's BMW.

Now lets talk about your Accord, I too have a 96 Accord I4 w/122k, I swear that thing spent my money more than my six, seal over heated so oil leak all over the place just a month ago, banging noise coming from the engine (can't find where), have trouble to fire up in the winter (I just did a tune up on her last winter), tranny slipping, miss fire and etc. But I wouldn't say Honda has definetly lost my future business, economic cars usually have more problems, like the Accord, 626, Altima and etc. But there are more better model out there from each company, one model can't determine how good a company is

Anywayz to Mazda on the new Consumer Reports
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Old December 18th, 2003, 05:57 PM   #20
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actaully honda's reliabilty is not overated. i used to buy american cars all the time. i was all about the american cars. One day i bought a honda, specifically the 98 av6, and i was blownn away by the qauility of the car. it was amazing. 178 000 clicks no problems, not even transmission. know i have a 2002 accord and same thing no problems and no transmission, knock on wood. oh yeah that is at 60 000 clicks.
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Old December 18th, 2003, 07:12 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by omairv6 on December 18th, 2003 at 07:57 PM

actaully honda's reliabilty is not overated.
It's all relative to what you've owned before and what you're used to. Honda's reliability as of late is less than what I'm used to. A lot less.
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Old December 19th, 2003, 06:18 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by omairv6
actaully honda's reliabilty is not overated. i used to buy american cars all the time. i was all about the american cars. One day i bought a honda, specifically the 98 av6, and i was blownn away by the qauility of the car. it was amazing. 178 000 clicks no problems, not even transmission. know i have a 2002 accord and same thing no problems and no transmission, knock on wood. oh yeah that is at 60 000 clicks.
What we mean by overated is that, people thing Honda is unbreakable. And you cannot rate a company from one car, like your Accord is different than the one that I have, that's why we have a consumer report, but people can't accept it when some company like Mazda are actually improving their quality. If we can compare the quality of two companies by what we own, I can tell you that my six is a lot better than the Accord.
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Old December 29th, 2003, 11:14 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blue Mazda
Strange that the separate the Altima 4cyl from the V6 but don't do it for the 6 or the Accord? Maybe it is becasue this is the first year they have run this data and because it is already relatively limited, they have to do it this way.
This was already explained by SteVTEC as thus:
"CU also tracks different drivetrain configurations such as V6 and I4. If there are significant differences in reliability between the 4-cyl and 6-cyl versions of a car, they'll break it out into separate sub-models and track each one separately."
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Old December 29th, 2003, 11:24 AM   #24
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steve do you have the chart with infiniti on it? i'm curious to see how the G35 stacks up against the competition.
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Old December 29th, 2003, 06:33 PM   #25
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You could always try going to consumer reports website
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Old January 7th, 2004, 09:24 PM   #26
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i am surprised the altima was as high as it was. Far different sorry to people that have had problem with them.
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Old January 7th, 2004, 11:10 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by smokedoutv6 on December 29th, 2003 at 01:24 PM

steve do you have the chart with infiniti on it? i'm curious to see how the G35 stacks up against the competition.
From highest to lowest.

Infiniti I35 (much better than average)
Lexus IS300
Lexus ES330
Infiniti G35* (better than average)
BMW 3-Series (average)
Saab 9-5
Volvo S60
Lincoln LS
Chrysler 300M
Saab 9-3*
Volvo S80 (worse than average)
A4 4-cyl.
A4 V6
Mercedes-Benz C-Class (much worse than average)
Cadillac CTS* (-91%)
Jaguar X-Type (-151%)
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Old January 10th, 2004, 10:57 AM   #28
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Didn't realize how reliable the Buicks were for their first years.

Go Mazda. Hopefully, the better the competition, the better Honda will do to improve their vehicles.
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