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Old October 7th, 2004, 07:35 PM   #1
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KL-03 in the family

Amazing engine btw, It really is like a Mini-VQ engine. There is an endless supply of turbine-like smooth power and there is TQ everywhere, delivered in such creamy smoothness just like the VQ engine. There are no engine vibs through the shifter or seats. I really like it. My VE sends vibs through the shifter all the time, except at idle. It makes the VE feel cobby, although the engine has a smooth flow of power. The KL-03 revs more freely also, I was amazed and wonder why this engine doesn't get the same recognition throughout the enthusiast world?

Oh, its a 1994 MX-6. Beige Metallic/tan leather interior. My 16 year old brother is buying it from money he saved up from working this summer for $2,200. It has 144,XXX miles and the interior is in great condition. It has a slight tear on the driver's side seat on the side bolster. The exterior is showing signs of that model years typical Clear-coat cracking, even though the paint underneath is still glossy. I test drove it and I actually like the car. All of the pedals are soft, with little resistance. I slammed the clutch down the at first, used to my Maxima's much much more heavier clutch pedal. The steering is the same, its direct, with no resistance. It takes more man power to steer the Max.
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Old October 8th, 2004, 06:10 PM   #2
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How's the reliability of it? I've always been told to stay away from older Mazdas (pre-6).
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Old October 12th, 2004, 11:51 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doom
How's the reliability of it? I've always been told to stay away from older Mazdas (pre-6).
That's not true, the KL series is pretty reliable, snap in a ZE and you get 195hp Only problem they had was the leaky VCGs, $50 DIY job so no big deal, maybe caliper and disty for 93-94 models, they fixed them on 95+, other than that it's a good motor, just hard to work on
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Old October 15th, 2004, 06:08 AM   #4
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I owned two Ford Probes and the reliability of the KL-03 was fine. On the Valve Cover Gaskets, that is something that goes on Hondas and Nissans too, not just Mazdas. The biggest reason why people would have said to stay away from the KL-03 or older Mazdas was due to automatic transmission failure. Mazda used a Ford tranny in these that was KNOWN for burning itself up. This tranny has been redesigned currently and is actually a fine unit which is used in the 6i and 3s.
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Old October 15th, 2004, 06:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Mazda
I owned two Ford Probes and the reliability of the KL-03 was fine. On the Valve Cover Gaskets, that is something that goes on Hondas and Nissans too, not just Mazdas. The biggest reason why people would have said to stay away from the KL-03 or older Mazdas was due to automatic transmission failure. Mazda used a Ford tranny in these that was KNOWN for burning itself up. This tranny has been redesigned currently and is actually a fine unit which is used in the 6i and 3s.
Are you sure they use the same tranny? From what I know, 2nd Gen MX-6 and PGT used different tranny (MTX), they have different gear ratio, and the MX-6 tranny is a lot smoother than the PGT one cause it's a Mazda tranny. I don't know about the 1st Gen and the auto on 2nd Gen.
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Old October 18th, 2004, 06:00 AM   #6
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Exact same Ford Tranny ZE. Matter of fact, the Probe GT, MX-6 and 626 were all built on the same platform at the same plant in flat rock. The gears in the MX-6 were changed to compensate for the 15" rims it had vs the 16's on the PGT, but the tranny was the same Ford EAT4 unit for all 3 models in V6. Why would they use a different one in the Probe GT? It would make no sense from an economies of scale stand point. The manual units in all 3 models were provided by the Mazda/Nissan joint venture, Jatco.
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Old October 18th, 2004, 11:57 AM   #7
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my brothers car is a 5speed, so its all good One thing the Maxima's 5speed is cursed of is a weak master/slave cylinder and weak differential bearings. I just found out this weekend where the small patch of dark spot on my driveway was from, a leak in the master/slave cylinder lines. I have little fluid and its well below the minumum level. I took a trip to the twin cities and by the time I got back, I had trouble getting it into any gear I finally got my way around to 2nd gear by pumping the clutch several times and kept it in 2nd gear all the way through town.

Do MX-6 manny's have this weak spot also?

Last edited by Max on This; October 18th, 2004 at 12:03 PM..
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Old October 19th, 2004, 06:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max on This
my brothers car is a 5speed, so its all good One thing the Maxima's 5speed is cursed of is a weak master/slave cylinder and weak differential bearings. I just found out this weekend where the small patch of dark spot on my driveway was from, a leak in the master/slave cylinder lines. I have little fluid and its well below the minumum level. I took a trip to the twin cities and by the time I got back, I had trouble getting it into any gear I finally got my way around to 2nd gear by pumping the clutch several times and kept it in 2nd gear all the way through town.

Do MX-6 manny's have this weak spot also?
Nope

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Mazda
Exact same Ford Tranny ZE. Matter of fact, the Probe GT, MX-6 and 626 were all built on the same platform at the same plant in flat rock. The gears in the MX-6 were changed to compensate for the 15" rims it had vs the 16's on the PGT, but the tranny was the same Ford EAT4 unit for all 3 models in V6. Why would they use a different one in the Probe GT? It would make no sense from an economies of scale stand point. The manual units in all 3 models were provided by the Mazda/Nissan joint venture, Jatco.
I think I meant to say, they have different manual tranny. Yes their auto tranny were the same, built by Ford, that's why they have so many problem with it

Yea I know they both build in Flat Rock, the 4EAT/GF4A-EL which is the auto tranny were built by Ford. The MTX G25M-R was Mazda tranny but I "think" that's on the MX-6 only, PGT has different MTX which also built by Ford, they have different gear ratio and maybe sightly different design (correct me if I'm wrong). I drove both MX-6 and PGT (MTX), you can definitely tell the different between the tranny, MX-6 one is very smooth even with STS, and the PGT one is very notchy even with stock shifter and Redline MT90 tranny fluid.
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Old October 22nd, 2004, 07:36 AM   #9
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Nope. The tranny on the Probe GT and the MX-6 are both a Jatco unit built in Japan. Jatco is a joint venture between Mazda and Nissan. Mazda doesn't actually build passenger car trannys. Same goes for Nissan. For Mazda, this is all outsourced to Jatco, Ford or now Aisin (the source for the new Mazda 6s's 6 speed auto). The difference in the gear ratios for the 5 speed Probe GT and 5 speed MX-6 were due to the Probe having 16" wheels and the MX-5 having 15" wheels. For some reason they felt it necessary to compensate on this. The manual trannys for both the MX and Probe GT were changed for 1996 and 1997 to have a taller 5th gear for fuel economey, but otherwise no other changes were made. Again, building 3 cars on the same platform with the same engine choices in the MX, 626 and Probe GT, Ford/Mazda is taking advantage of economies of scale by using each other's stuff. They aren't going to build one car (the Ford) with a different tranny or engine design. They may make changes, like I know the Ford versions got Motorcraft spark plug wires and copper plugs, where the Mazdas used NGK Blue wires and NGK copper plugs. But the changes will generally be minor. I drove 2 probe GT's of my own and 1 95 GT and 97 GTS as well as a 93 base and several MX-6's of differing years and can tell you, the differences were all in your head. The clutch take up, distance between shift gates, shifter feel etc were all just about the same. Trust me, hit the net an look it up, but the trannys and major components in the 626, MX and Probe were all the same.
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Old October 28th, 2004, 05:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Mazda
The manual trannys for both the MX and Probe GT were changed for 1996 and 1997 to have a taller 5th gear for fuel economey, but otherwise no other changes were made.
Sorry to pop your bubble dude, but you're wrong too... The MX3 never changed Tranny's and always have the 4.39 Final Drive ratio, and the MX6 and 626 both had the 4.11 Final Drive ratio, causing them to cruise at a lower RPM. Maybe the Probe GT changed, but not the MX3.
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Old October 28th, 2004, 09:22 PM   #11
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Why don't you guys post some references instead of calling each other wrong?
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Old October 29th, 2004, 01:53 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MazdaSpeed
Sorry to pop your bubble dude, but you're wrong too... The MX3 never changed Tranny's and always have the 4.39 Final Drive ratio, and the MX6 and 626 both had the 4.11 Final Drive ratio, causing them to cruise at a lower RPM. Maybe the Probe GT changed, but not the MX3.
Looks like you have the same final drive as the Probe GT then. None of those cars has change final driver through the years, MX-6's and 626's are always 4.11 through out 93-97 years, and the Probe always has 4.39

Quote:
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Why don't you guys post some references instead of calling each other wrong?
Those data are pull from a Mazda dealer workshop manual, I don't feel like scanning it
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Old October 29th, 2004, 06:32 AM   #13
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Correct, the final drive ratio was not changed for any year. If you read what I posted I stated that a taller 5th gear was added after 1995. Also, you are both wrong on the final drive ratio. As noted here on a reputable mazda website, the 626/MX used a final drive ratio of 4.105-1:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dorothy...bemx/p_m14.htm

And just so you don't dispute that "that says UK" or "thats for the 626", here is another source with the ratios on the MX:

http://www.netspeed.com.au/jhoughton/mx6spec.html

Additionally, according to this article the Probe GT used a final drive ratio of 3.49-1 as per this MotorTrend comparo with the Integra GSR. However, I think the article may be wrong because to compensate for the 16" wheels I would guess the Probe would have a SHORTER final drive than the MX, thus 4.39 makes more sense than 3.49, but here it is anyhow:

http://www.alabamaprobes.org/alpoc7.htm

I am researching the gear ratios for these cars and will see what I can find. The 1993/1994 models are easy to find, 1996 and 1997, not so much. For the record the two sources show the ratios for the Probe GT and MX-6 from first to fifth, exactly the same. The Motor trend article does round them, but they are the same ratios first through fifth. Only difference is the final drive ratio. My guess is if I can find ratios for the 1996 models, they will be the same first through fifth also. As I stated, it is the same tranny. It was said here before that it wasn't the same and that the gear ratios were different also. They aren't. Doom is totally correct in saying to post some sources. I had it right in front of me and didn't post the links. Educate don't speculate.

Last edited by Blue Mazda; October 29th, 2004 at 07:06 AM..
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Old October 29th, 2004, 07:07 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MazdaSpeed
Sorry to pop your bubble dude, but you're wrong too... The MX3 never changed Tranny's and always have the 4.39 Final Drive ratio, and the MX6 and 626 both had the 4.11 Final Drive ratio, causing them to cruise at a lower RPM. Maybe the Probe GT changed, but not the MX3.
Again, same tranny all around. They aren't going to change one and not the other........
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Old October 29th, 2004, 09:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Mazda
Correct, the final drive ratio was not changed for any year. If you read what I posted I stated that a taller 5th gear was added after 1995. Also, you are both wrong on the final drive ratio. As noted here on a reputable mazda website, the 626/MX used a final drive ratio of 4.105-1:
I believe that taller 5th gear is what I was talking about on different gear ratio. 4.105...... 4.11...... Come on now, can't call that wrong, it's just rounding, kinda like $19.95 and $20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Mazda
Additionally, according to this article the Probe GT used a final drive ratio of 3.49-1 as per this MotorTrend comparo with the Integra GSR. However, I think the article may be wrong because to compensate for the 16" wheels I would guess the Probe would have a SHORTER final drive than the MX, thus 4.39 makes more sense than 3.49, but here it is anyhow:

http://www.alabamaprobes.org/alpoc7.htm
I read 4.39:1 on there

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Mazda
I am researching the gear ratios for these cars and will see what I can find. The 1993/1994 models are easy to find, 1996 and 1997, not so much. For the record the two sources show the ratios for the Probe GT and MX-6 from first to fifth, exactly the same. The Motor trend article does round them, but they are the same ratios first through fifth. Only difference is the final drive ratio. My guess is if I can find ratios for the 1996 models, they will be the same first through fifth also. As I stated, it is the same tranny. It was said here before that it wasn't the same and that the gear ratios were different also. They aren't. Doom is totally correct in saying to post some sources. I had it right in front of me and didn't post the links. Educate don't speculate.
Here's the 96 model, out of my Mazda workshop manual

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Old November 13th, 2004, 12:57 PM   #16
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OK, I have torn apart MANY transmissions.. Some have had some INTERESTING differences...

Some differences:

4.11 final are in ALL MX6/626, and a FEW PGTs (like mine) mostly 94 model years btw
4.27 is in MOST PGTs

SOME later model mazda trans have shift fork stabilizers on the 5-REV fork

4.39s were on ALL the mx-3s trans i have seen.. Its a very odd gear ratio that isn't real common amongst the Jatco tranmissions.. Its in some pickup trucks to try to get more low end and keep the trans from ripping itself apart when hauling a heavy load. OTOH, its a GREAT swap with a Mazdaspeed LSD and a new output shaft.. Greatly decreases the force on the entire gear cluster and gives some great accelleration.

Also, too there is a .717 fifth gear that is in some of the other mazda/festiva/hyundai trans that will fit our cars... The lighter the car the bigger the 5th gear generally, and the bigger

BTW a 3.49 would do just that. Bye bye 3rd. Rip the teeth clean off of it during a launch. 3.49 is really impossible lol!

Last edited by ion442; November 13th, 2004 at 01:02 PM..
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