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Old June 20th, 2007, 11:06 PM   #1
 
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03 AV6 vs. 06+ AV6 (maryland)

well, i was coming home from my girlfriends house about 30 mins ago, cruising at the speed limit, until i come to a stop light. I'm about to make my right, but then a silver 06+ av6 rolls through the intersection pretty speedy, so i try to catch up. he gets stopped at the next intersection. i notice the car has that red "v6" badging, so it was a six speed. even sounded like a six speed. anyways, the guy had 18 or 19 inch black rims, 8000k HID's or so (really blue), and i don't know what else. we were messing around, and then finally raced a couple of times. i had him by 3/4ths of a car all times. i was surprised, because my car is an automatic. i tried to continue cruising with him, but the light ahead turned yellow, so i braked. guess what happened next...you guessed it, he went through a red light, and the intersection had a red light camera too...hope he didn't get a ticket....

this was in the MD/VA/DC area in rockville....i am wondering if this guy is on v6performance ......anyways, just a fun run...
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Old June 21st, 2007, 06:43 AM   #2
 
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hmm, r u SURE hes manny? either that or he can't shift for beans...is ur car fully stock auto?

did have dual xhausts? maybe hes got a fake v6 badge?
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Old June 21st, 2007, 11:06 AM   #3
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^No im sure it was a V6, the six speed mainly has the advantage over the auto after about 80.........i could pull on my friends AV6 6spd until about 80 then he would be passing me by.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 12:34 PM   #4
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This is precisely why the Honda/Acura crowd has such a HORRIBLE reputation in the DC area. Thanks for contributing.

And this is precisely how I've seen it happen too. Honda owners all have to "race" other Honda owners, they end up doing stupid crap like this, and in the end the person who "wins" is the one who's willing to pull the biggest retard of a stunt, like blowing through god damn red lights even when there's cameras. GOOD JOB! It's a moronic game of one-upsmanship to see who can prove themselves to be the biggest moron. Then there's people who are just in a hurry and need to get somewhere fast, but some punk in a Honda/Acura thinks they want to "race" and "have to be faster" and the next thing you know they're buzzing all over you and cutting you off.

All of this is why everybody I talk to that lives in this area who is not associated with "the scene" fears you losers (talking about the honda crowd in dc in general and not you personally, although by this very post you're making yourself part of it), because they're just trying to get from Point A to Point B, meanwhile other people see public roads as a RACE TRACK. A former co-worker of mine and I were talking about cars one day and I suggested the TL to him. He said no way, because he said it seemed like everytime he saw a TL on the road they were driving like a complete ass and he "didn't want to be associated with that crowd". Where does he live? ROCKVILLE! Go figure!


TAKE IT TO THE FRIGGIN TRACK!


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Old June 21st, 2007, 12:35 PM   #5
 
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i think we hit about 100, and nothing had changed, so we both slowed down because we were well past the speed limit, and even thought it was late at night, you never know when a deer or something could pop out....i still had half a car on him.....all i have done to my car is an AEM V2, so from the exterior it appears stock....i think he had an intake too, but im not sure, because the 6 speeds came with a specific intake that was not on the autos. may have been that, but my intake was louder, hahaha...
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Old June 21st, 2007, 12:36 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by 0Tolerance
^No im sure it was a V6, the six speed mainly has the advantage over the auto after about 80.........i could pull on my friends AV6 6spd until about 80 then he would be passing me by.
Wrong. Your friend can't drive then. These cars trap at 92-97 mph. To gain the half to nearly a full second that the 6spd will pull over the auto just from 80 mph in the 1/4 mile, the 6spd would literally have to kick in the warp drive. A well-driven 6spd will pull off the line, and then keep on walking away.

The guy's big stupid rims were probably slowing him down that stuckey raced.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 12:40 PM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by SteVTEC
This is precisely why the Honda/Acura crowd has such a HORRIBLE reputation in the DC area. Thanks for contributing.

And this is precisely how I've seen it happen too. Honda owners all have to "race" other Honda owners, they end up doing stupid crap like this, and in the end the person who "wins" is the one who's willing to pull the biggest retard of a stunt, like blowing through god damn red lights even when there's cameras. GOOD JOB! It's a moronic game of one-upsmanship to see who can prove themselves to be the biggest moron. Then there's people who are just in a hurry and need to get somewhere fast, but some punk in a Honda/Acura thinks they want to "race" and "have to be faster" and the next thing you know they're buzzing all over you and cutting you off.

All of this is why everybody I talk to that lives in this area who is not associated with "the scene" fears you losers (talking about the honda crowd in dc in general and not you personally, although by this very post you're making yourself part of it), because they're just trying to get from Point A to Point B, meanwhile other people see public roads as a RACE TRACK. A former co-worker of mine and I were talking about cars one day and I suggested the TL to him. He said no way, because he said it seemed like everytime he saw a TL on the road they were driving like a complete ass and he "didn't want to be associated with that crowd". Where does he live? ROCKVILLE! Go figure!


TAKE IT TO THE FRIGGIN TRACK!


</rant>
haha, i hear ya steve, plenty of honda/acura owners are like that here. alot try to race me because they think im stock, and when i dont race, they get mad and take off.....racing costs money because gas aint cheap, lol...there was nobody around, but still thats not really an excuse...i really wanted to know what kind of hid's the guy had, cause im looking into them now, but he wanted to go and wouldnt roll down his window, so i thought it wouldn't be too bad. didn't wanna go as fast as i did, but cant change back the time.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 12:41 PM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by SteVTEC
The guy's big stupid rims were probably slowing him down that stuckey raced.
yeah, i also thought about that...cause im still on the stock 16x6.5's...
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Old June 21st, 2007, 01:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteVTEC
Wrong. Your friend can't drive then. These cars trap at 92-97 mph.
Please explain to me, what do U meqn these cars trap at 92-97?

Thanks
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Old June 21st, 2007, 01:22 PM   #10
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ill check about special intake. my dad has 04 sedan v6 but i dont think honda put anything special but i might be wrong. i guess he didnt lanch or anything. otherwise you would notice if it was manual
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Old June 21st, 2007, 01:22 PM   #11
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I just had an incounter yesterday with a really cool civic.

He was next driving to me, staring at me, flooring it then letting off. His girlfriend laughing. I finally took the bait, droped down 2 hears and went. 10 car lengths later, we pull up to a red light and he wont even look at me.

Light turns green, he peels out and I just let him go. About a half mile up is a freeway on ramp. It's a 2 lane on ramp the curves to the left with a large 15ft wall on the right. I start out right behind him then move to the next lane to go around him just to see what he'd do. Of course he floors. I mildly keep up, his rear bumper at my front on the outside of the corner. I know my car has no problem taking this corner at the speed we are going but I doubted his. Just as I backed out of the throttle, he realizes he's going to fast. With seemingly all the understeer in the world, his car goes straight for the wall. He was able to pull it out 2 feet short of putting his car into someones backyard. I'm sure his girlfriend started to beat his ass right after she sht her pants.

I feel bad for pushing him to that point. I'm glad I had the where-with-all to realize not only my own cars capabilities, but his too. His ego got the best of him and it came within 2 feet off biting him in the ass.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 01:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sy272004
ill check about special intake. my dad has 04 sedan v6 but i dont think honda put anything special but i might be wrong. i guess he didnt lanch or anything. otherwise you would notice if it was manual


The 6 speed has a completly different intake set up than the auto.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 01:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SixSpeeder
The 6 speed has a completly different intake set up than the auto.
ill take your word for it but will check my dads whats different about it anyway. suprised honda actualy did different one for 6spd
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Old June 21st, 2007, 01:32 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by sy272004
ill take your word for it but will check my dads whats different about it anyway. suprised honda actualy did different one for 6spd
There are a couple of differences actually, the intake is very different (does not have the resonator chamber of the Auto, the brakes and rims are bigger (Auto 11.2" front, MT 11.8") and the MT has a sudo front upper tie bar.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 01:53 PM   #15
 
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Just for the record i have seen quite a few 7th gen Automatics in my area with the RED badge. I really dont see how a mid to high 15 second Auto is gonna pull on a Manual at any speed. Compare numbers 6spd weighs less, transfers more power to the wheels through standard transmission= less driveline loss, and has shorter gearing.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 02:23 PM   #16
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You guys all crack me up. I had a friend who is a very experienced "track/race" driver (many courses at Summit Racing, Skip Barber, etc...) For a period of about 10 years, he would get annoyed at all you racer wannabe's and would take up any challenge with his RX-7. He would push the racer-wannabe's to the limit to the point that he has personally caused about 5 accidents because the racer-wannabe's lost control and crashed either into Jersey wall or ditch). He claims that he's teaching these fools a lesson.

Since then, he now drives a GMC Denali and Mercedes SL600. On occasion, he still will take up a stupid challenge and get the other driver to lose control. Luckily, its all been late at night with very few cars on the road so other drivers are not impacted, except for the racer wannabe. Since being married and now with a baby boy due in a month or so, he has since stopped causing racer wannabes to crash their cars. He has also moved down to Austin, TX where people are not as insane as around here.

It's simply amusing to see everyone comparing similar cars when it really comes down to driver skill. People are now *****ing about all the photo speed cameras and red light cameras going up all over Rockville. I would like to thank all you racer-wannabes for causing this to happen and ruining it for everyone in the area.

Here's a word of advice. When I'm driving over 55mph up and down I-270, that means I need to get somewhere fast. That's why I'm in the left lane flying by you. I'm not trying to race you or bait you. I usually have my baby daughter with me so I won't be trying to win any races. HOWEVER, if you insist on making a total A$$ of yourself and insist on trying to race, cut me off, endanger the other drivers on the highway etc... I promise I will do the following.

I will take your tag number and call it into Montgomery County police to log it in for aggressive driving and direct any available units to the vicinity. I will also call it into the Maryland State police which has a substation right off Montrose Rd since they have direct jurisdiction over I-270. And yes, I do have their numbers on speed dial since I've done this before I will also call one of my council member friends to followup on the case w/ the MCPD and MSP liasons. (I've donated enough money in political donations to expect this kind of service I've simply had it with these morons who have ruined the scene in this area.

Ever wonder why we've been kicked out of the Tysons II? Tysons I? almost every major mall area where we've done meetings? I'm amazed the Rockville Pike meet still goes occurs on Fridays. That will change though once that new Condo starts filling up with people. Just watch. Once calls start coming in about noise from revving motors from those Condo owners, etc...Rockville police will shutdown that area as a meeting place.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 07:05 PM   #17
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ill take your word for it but will check my dads whats different about it anyway. suprised honda actualy did different one for 6spd

The 03-05 6-speeds have 2 major differences in their intake systems:

1. The lower resonator on the 6-speed is less than half the size of the one on the automatic's intake. It's more for sound than anything else. I doubt there'd be any power gain with the smaller resonator tube.

2. The 6-speeds feature a Variable-Resonance Intake Manifold that boosts low-end and mid-range torque. As far as I know, it doesn't add any peak horsepower. Torque? Probably, but as far as I've seen, I'd say the automatic and 6-speed J30A4/5's have identical high-end power.


For 2006, the automatics and 6-speeds now share the same intake resonator, which is bigger than the 03-05 6-speed's resonator but still much smaller than the 03-05 5AT's resonator.

The variable intake manifold is still exclusive to the 6-speed. Why Honda didn't put it on the automatic is beyond me, unless they're afraid that the extra low-end torque would kill the tranny faster
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Old June 21st, 2007, 07:21 PM   #18
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Please explain to me, what do U meqn these cars trap at 92-97?

Thanks
1/4 mile. The autos trap at around 92-93 mph, and the 6spds at 96-97 mph.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 08:01 PM   #19
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The variable intake manifold is still exclusive to the 6-speed. Why Honda didn't put it on the automatic is beyond me, unless they're afraid that the extra low-end torque would kill the tranny faster
If they gave it some low-end, it might outgun the heavier TL. The other problem is that you might actually be able to get some power below 5000 rpm and without dropping 2 or 3 gears such that you have enough juice to outrun a V6 Ford F-150 , and that's not allowed either. Ditto with a D4 detent in the shifter, or actually having a manumatic mode. That might actually make the car more responsive and fun to drive, which also isn't allowed. Need to leave that stuff for the TL. This is why it's tough for me to get excited about Accords these days because everything in them is "dumbed down". Still a fine car and something I'd consider buying, but just not something I'd be excited or enthusiastic about, which is a bummer.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 08:11 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Stuckeyman87
haha, i hear ya steve, plenty of honda/acura owners are like that here. alot try to race me because they think im stock, and when i dont race, they get mad and take off.....racing costs money because gas aint cheap, lol...there was nobody around, but still thats not really an excuse...i really wanted to know what kind of hid's the guy had, cause im looking into them now, but he wanted to go and wouldnt roll down his window, so i thought it wouldn't be too bad. didn't wanna go as fast as i did, but cant change back the time.
Well at least you had a little bit of sense and did it late at night. I've seen people go tearing through traffic at 80 on 355 in broad daylight, or 100+ on 270, and it's a honda or acura 9 times out of 10. Like I said, soooo many people are absolutely TERRORIZED by the H/A crowd in your area. It's disgraceful, and the most pathetic "scene" I have ever witnessed. I don't even tell people that I help run a Honda site anymore because they'll instantly associate me with being a part of "that". How sad is that?
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Old June 21st, 2007, 09:13 PM   #21
 
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It's simply amusing to see everyone comparing similar cars when it really comes down to driver skill. People are now *****ing about all the photo speed cameras and red light cameras going up all over Rockville. I would like to thank all you racer-wannabes for causing this to happen and ruining it for everyone in the area.

Here's a word of advice. When I'm driving over 55mph up and down I-270, that means I need to get somewhere fast. That's why I'm in the left lane flying by you. I'm not trying to race you or bait you. I usually have my baby daughter with me so I won't be trying to win any races. HOWEVER, if you insist on making a total A$$ of yourself and insist on trying to race, cut me off, endanger the other drivers on the highway etc... I promise I will do the following.

I will take your tag number and call it into Montgomery County police to log it in for aggressive driving and direct any available units to the vicinity. I will also call it into the Maryland State police which has a substation right off Montrose Rd since they have direct jurisdiction over I-270. And yes, I do have their numbers on speed dial since I've done this before I will also call one of my council member friends to followup on the case w/ the MCPD and MSP liasons. (I've donated enough money in political donations to expect this kind of service I've simply had it with these morons who have ruined the scene in this area.

Ever wonder why we've been kicked out of the Tysons II? Tysons I? almost every major mall area where we've done meetings? I'm amazed the Rockville Pike meet still goes occurs on Fridays. That will change though once that new Condo starts filling up with people. Just watch. Once calls start coming in about noise from revving motors from those Condo owners, etc...Rockville police will shutdown that area as a meeting place.
sorry to break the news to you, but your local police arent going to do much about it.yeah it sucks. but it is true. they know that a street race is going to last no more then 30 seconds. by the time fills arrive to your 10-20, they know no one will be there. reckless driving 23103c.v.c is usually a misdemeanor and is very hard to prove, none the less from a civilian. if it's not in the officer's presence, the officer will have no authority pressing those charges. even if you give them the ricer's license plate, there will be no follow up. officers these days have become so complacent, most of them won't even pick up a homicide 6f suspect photo after a briefing.
yeah they have special teams to break up street races, but not just your random reckless driver. for courteous purposes they will respond to the call, but mr ricer will be long gone. dont expect much.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 09:47 PM   #22
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sorry to break the news to you, but your local police arent going to do much about it.yeah it sucks. but it is true. they know that a street race is going to last no more then 30 seconds. by the time fills arrive to your 10-20, they know no one will be there. reckless driving 23103c.v.c is usually a misdemeanor and is very hard to prove, none the less from a civilian. if it's not in the officer's presence, the officer will have no authority pressing those charges. even if you give them the ricer's license plate, there will be no follow up. officers these days have become so complacent, most of them won't even pick up a homicide 6f suspect photo after a briefing.
yeah they have special teams to break up street races, but not just your random reckless driver. for courteous purposes they will respond to the call, but mr ricer will be long gone. dont expect much.

LOL. You've obviously never been or driven in the DC Metro area. Montgomery County is getting almost as bad as Fairfax and Arlington County, VA in terms of police pulling over "aggressive drivers." Sounds like typical California attitude to me. Although the stories of police harrassment in San Jose, CA area that I hear from fellow V6P members seem to make your post inaccurate.

On any given day, there are at least 100 officers in Arlington County Court waiting for their turn to ensure that a driver doesn't get away w/ a ticket. Montgomery County District court is fast becoming the same way. There is such an over abundance of police in the DC Metro area is starting to look like a police state.

There are the US Park Police, various county polices, DC police, MD/VA State police, plus the various sub agencies that have overlapping jurisdiction within the DC metro area.

The US Park Police enjoys sitting in the middle of the night on GW Parkway and Clara Barton Parkway catching speeders and aggressive drivers all night long.

DC Police have speed and red light cameras at almost ALL roads leading into the city. On Thursday, Friday, Sat and Sun nights, you can usually find police units at major roads leading OUT of the city starting at 9:30 PM.

Montgomery County Police love to sit around Great Seneca Parkway and other nice long stretches in Gaithersburg and Germantown during weekend nights and catch speeders, drunk drivers, and "aggressive drivers" all night long. In fact, if you are driving a modded car, they automatically assume you are "aggressive" and many have been known to follow you around Rockville and Bethesda, while running your plates, registration, even pass you at lights to see if you have your front plates on.

God Forbid you get pulled over by a "country" cop in Arlington or Fairfax county for "aggressive driving" You will expect a night in jail for these types of "aggressive or reckless" offenses.

Welcome to the DC Metro region. The highest ration of lawyers outside of NYC. The highest ration of advance degree holders in the world. The highest ratio of tight wads in the US and oh..GASP! It's the nation's capital so who knows, you might suddenly pass or cut off a Congressman or Senator, and god forbid you do it to one of the thousands of Judges and Admin Judges in the area.

This area has such a joyous time advertising their anti-aggressive driving programs, posting of statistics of how many people they catch, etc... Heck, its even on the LED billboards on all the highways. It's gotten so bad in this area that its a yearly political slogan. Stop all the aggressive drivers, etc... Every politician in the region uses it to get re-elected. Every electible Sheriff in the region uses it to get elected. In an area where homicides isn't as high as in other places, the apprehension of speeders and aggressive drivers is now top priority.

In case the locals haven't noticed. The City of Rockville...w/ the over-abundance of tax money from all the new communities in the area now have GASP! Dodge Charger V8 police editions. Now try outrunning one of these cars...lol.


They brag about it here:
http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/Ap....asp?NaID=3340

and here:
http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/po.../ask/speed.asp

Dial #77
http://safety.transportation.org/prgpub.aspx?pid=630

http://www.smoothoperatorprogram.com/

They even give out awards in the fall. I wonder who gets an award? How many tickets you issue?

http://www.smoothoperatorprogram.com/events.html

Bored yet? Read their annual report

http://www.smoothoperatorprogram.com...ary_Report.pdf

Need I go on?
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Old June 21st, 2007, 10:11 PM   #23
 
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Need I go on?
no

maybe i should just speak for california...
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 06:49 AM   #24
 
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the thing with street racing... im talking bout the random 1 on 1 stranger encounters..not ur setup 1/4mile runs with a crowd watching, i think it happens more often then peeps think but it only takes like 1 big incident where someone gets killed, then its in the news... here in toronto we had had some deaths re: alleged street racing and its a HOT topic...


as u know , this concerns me cuz i have a tendency to want to rice around , it just all dpends on how one defines street racing...if one car wants to go faster then another car, at speeds WELL over the limit...is that racing??? or just driving faster?

its a touchy subject. but i don't wanna rant on!

re: that guy who purposely tries to max out and make the ricers crash is just wrong!!!
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 07:27 AM   #25
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the thing with street racing... im talking bout the random 1 on 1 stranger encounters..not ur setup 1/4mile runs with a crowd watching, i think it happens more often then peeps think but it only takes like 1 big incident where someone gets killed, then its in the news... here in toronto we had had some deaths re: alleged street racing and its a HOT topic...


as u know , this concerns me cuz i have a tendency to want to rice around , it just all dpends on how one defines street racing...if one car wants to go faster then another car, at speeds WELL over the limit...is that racing??? or just driving faster?

its a touchy subject. but i don't wanna rant on!
When I'm just in a hurry and need to get somewhere fast, it annoys the living **** out of me when someone like you will pass me "just to be faster" or to be in front and then cut me off, or "lane block" me or the other stupid ass **** that you do. If you did to me on the road what you do to other people, I would run you off of the ****ing road or cause you to crash in some other way. I'm dead serious too. Stop ****ing around.

Quote:
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re: that guy who purposely tries to max out and make the ricers crash is just wrong!!!
Because you know you're somebody that he'd make crash. If you drove responsibly in the first place and knew the limits of your car and didn't drive like an idiot, then something like that would never happen.
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 12:15 PM   #26
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Here's a tip. If I'm in a hurry and some idiot decides he wants to race a large silver Toyota minivan, be my guest. Cuz I'm not slowing down and if you cut me off, chances are, i won't be able to stop in time which will result in me clipping you in the rear.

Now boys and girls still in school....AND those from racing school. What happens when a large mass hits a smaller mass at high speeds in the rear fender area AND the large mass does not slow down and instead keeps a steady speed? Somebody is going to get spun around, hit the guard rail and possibly flip over to either on-coming traffic OR flip out of the local lanes and into the main I-270 corrridor. Oh, don't get me wrong, keeping a steady speed, my larger mass WILL plow you out of my way w/ minimal damage to my bumper and my ONLY safe option to keep out of your car flipping my way is to step on the gas and continue going straight and then slowing down after passing your wreck.

Don't worry, as required by law, I will stop, will have plenty of witness say that you cut me off and the cop will take one look at my minivan and one look at your wrecked modified car and automatically assume you are in the wrong. End of story.

Thank about that before trying to race any large SUV, minivan, and in general any vehicle that has a larger mass than you and then trying to cut those types of vehicles off.

BTW, has anyone in the Rockville area seen the new MD State police black SUV's on the highway? Its tinted ALL black and their lights are all hidden behind a mesh grill in the front and behind the completely black tinted windows in the rear. I've seen the pull over many people over the past few weeks. It used to be black Ford Explorers, but lately I've seen a Chevy Tahoe as well. Sneaky....very sneaky.

I'm not condoning my friends behavior, but keep in mind, he only does this after some idiot driver either cuts him off, actually tries to bait him, or in general does something to really piss my friend off. 99% of the idiots out here don't have the training or experience that he does and he certainly takes full advantage of it if he needs to.
Steve, next time he's in town, we should do lunch and he can regale you w/ all his stories...lol. It's actually REALLY REALLY funny. lol. I told him he should ghost-write a book about it and post it up and call it fiction. LOL. It actually inspired me to do some preliminary research into doing a tv/cable series based on the wild and crazy antics of stupid drivers. Kinda similar to the Tekademics videos...except this time, its not in favor of the "racer."
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Old June 23rd, 2007, 02:42 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by SteVTEC
If they gave it some low-end, it might outgun the heavier TL. The other problem is that you might actually be able to get some power below 5000 rpm and without dropping 2 or 3 gears such that you have enough juice to outrun a V6 Ford F-150 , and that's not allowed either. Ditto with a D4 detent in the shifter, or actually having a manumatic mode. That might actually make the car more responsive and fun to drive, which also isn't allowed. Need to leave that stuff for the TL. This is why it's tough for me to get excited about Accords these days because everything in them is "dumbed down". Still a fine car and something I'd consider buying, but just not something I'd be excited or enthusiastic about, which is a bummer.
If Honda would get off their lazy asses and make a real sports sedan out of the TL, then they could stop holding the Accord back. The TL needs to move up in the market and actually compete with the big-boys. That means no FWD and no wimpy, torque-challenged SOHC V6 engines.

The Accord has been held back in some way ever since the 2nd Gen TL came out, and it's really sad.

The 6G AV6 had the VTEC-E cams just so that it wouldn't be as quick as the 3.2TL. It was as quick as the TL in '99, but they changed that when they swapped the cams and intake manifold on the J32A1 for a setup that yielded much more low-end and mid-range power. Meanwhile, the Accord soldiered on with its VTEC-E and weak low-end power that paled in comparison to the TL's.

The 7G AV6 came to the market with plenty of power, but had an automatic transmission that severely limited driver involvement. Want to lock out 5th gear and only use 1st through 4th? Sorry, pal, there's no D4 detent on the shift selector, only D3 and D. Want to shift gears manually, and with style? Once again, sorry bud, no SportShift. That's why you have to spend several thousand more on our TL wannabe-sports sedan.

And, similar to the manner that the 6G AV6 was held back compared to the 2G TL, the 7G AV6 (automatic) couldn't have the low-end boosting variable intake manifold because it would make the lowly Accord feel as strong as the high-and-mighty TL (whose porky curb weight almost negated its displacement advantage).

Honda can't hold the Accord back forever, because the competition surely doesn't hold back their mainstream sedans for the sake of their premium marks. But that's because the competition has real sports sedans in their luxury-nameplate line-ups, and not gussied- and sported-up family sedans passing as premium sports sedans.

There's also a bigger price difference between their family sedans and luxury-sport sedans, but that's because there's a big difference between them in terms of style, performance, and luxury.

Toyota doesn't hold back the Camry in any way. They have the IS350 if you want a Lexus that's faster, sportier and more luxurious than a V6 Camry. And if you want more luxury than the Camry offers but don't care anything about handling, there's always the ES350. Either one will cost you a lot more than a Camry, but you pay for what you get.

And Nissan doesn't hold the Altima back in any way. The Altima is available with many of the features you'd find in an entry-level luxury sedan such as the TL. However, if you want even more luxury, more power and better handling, you'll just have to pony-up the extra dough for the G35.

And that's the problem with the TL. Since it sits on the same FWD platform as the Accord and is relatively modest in its luxury trimmings, the price difference between it and the top-of-the-line Accord isn't as great as it should be. So, the Accord has to be held back so that it doesn't make a very convincing arguement for not spending the extra money for the TL. If the TL were a real RWD sports sedan, it could move up-market and get out of the Accord's way.

IMO, Honda needs to seriously revamp their Acura line-up (mainly the TL), or the Accord will continue to suffer with a lower level of performance and fewer available features than its competition.
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Old June 23rd, 2007, 09:47 PM   #28
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^
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I I
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I Agree

The problem is......people are still buying the Honda Accords as if they are shopping at Costco, so Honda doesn't see their "hold back" of the Accord as a problem. Until they start losing more market share, I just don't see the Honda execs hitting the panic button yet.

Who knows, maybe the 08 Accord will be different
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Old June 24th, 2007, 06:25 PM   #29
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Dizzy i agree, i was in rockville earlier today and ive never had so many ppl try to race me . At first im not going to lie if there was a break in traffic and it was worth my time i got on it by the time the 6th or 7th car pulled up beside me and cut me off or just rode beside me it started to piss me off.Even my GF was like atf i hope he wrecks

Lets see....

3 Scion TC's
Celica GTS
Tibby
(surprisingly no hondas)

and some other morons, i wonder do people know that they are wasting gas , endangering people lives and okay if you win what do you get ? a cool story yo share with you mad tyte JDM crew pplz

Rockville ricers FTL
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Old July 11th, 2007, 03:08 PM   #30
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I havent been to rockville in about a year or so. I think i might have to stop by and meet all you guys
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