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Old May 14th, 2004, 10:05 PM   #1
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Ford BA Fairmont V8

http://www.autospeed.com.au/cms/A_1670/article.html

Why doesn't Ford bring this car to the States? It looks pretty good, it costs less than an Accord V6, it has the modular 5.4L V8 pumping out 295HP and 345TQ on regular gas, and best of all, it's RWD. With a little work, I think it could form it's own niche as a comfortable and affordable large luxury sedan. If not, I think it would at least be a decent replacement for the Crown Vic. What do you guys think?
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Old May 14th, 2004, 11:58 PM   #2
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WTH! That’s a Ford?!?!

Why isn't that car here? The interior is so nice compared to the bland interior inside oof the Crown Vic. The outside looks good too. The engine even has cam phasing with a 3 valves per cylinder (two inlet, one exhaust). Man if I was looking for a big car with a V8 I would defiantly consider getting this car .

One thing, how is this cheaper than an accord? The price they give is $46,615. I know that is not US dollars but I can't see how this car could cost less than 26 grand in US dollars.



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Old May 15th, 2004, 01:17 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Plumaccordcoupe on May 15th, 2004 at 01:58 AM



One thing, how is this cheaper than an accord? The price they give is $46,615. I know that is not US dollars but I can't see how this car could cost less than 26 grand in US dollars.
My bad, I should of said it's priced close to the Accord V6. In Australia, the top-line Accord V6 called the Accord V6 Luxury sells for $45,240 (http://www.honda.com.au/accord/accor...rice/price.htm)

So in America, this Ford would cost roughly $27k which still isn't bad for a modern, well-equipped RWD V8 sedan
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Old May 15th, 2004, 07:53 AM   #4
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This car looks really good on paper, but I think it'd fail to impress in the US. Do you guys remember the Mercury Marauder? I bet this is basically the same thing, but with the 5.4 and VCT.

1745 kg is 3847 lbs, it only has a 5200 rpm rev limit and that means really long gears. They said 0-100 kmh (62 mph) in the low-7 range (0-60 is 0.2-0.3s better) and low/mid-15 1/4 mile times. 12 l/100km in country driving is only 19.6 mpg US.

This is not any quicker than the 7g AV6 while fuel mileage is much worse. And an 04 Maxima auto would clean this things clock while still getting better mileage.

If you can find the gearing for it, CarTest the sucker. If it's not any quicker than low-15's then that's just sad.
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Old May 15th, 2004, 02:20 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by SteVTEC on May 15th, 2004 at 09:53 AM

This car looks really good on paper, but I think it'd fail to impress in the US. Do you guys remember the Mercury Marauder? I bet this is basically the same thing, but with the 5.4 and VCT.
You're probably right about it failing to impress the US. I'm just impressed with it because it looks better inside, and out, than anything Ford currently sells here with the exception of the new F150 which looks good, IMO.

Quote:
12 l/100km in country driving is only 19.6 mpg US.
Wow, I missed that That's horrible mileage for country driving unless they were flooring it most of the time. Hell, even the Crown Vic gets 25mpg on the highway. Can .8L worth of displacement really decrease gas mileage by over 5 gallons?


Quote:
This is not any quicker than the 7g AV6 while fuel mileage is much worse. And an 04 Maxima auto would clean this things clock while still getting better mileage.
True, but I was thinking this car would be a good competitor in the same class as the Buick LeSabre or Avalon. The big V8 is nice but I could see the car still being competitive using a smaller, more economical engine.


Quote:
If you can find the gearing for it, CarTest the sucker. If it's not any quicker than low-15's then that's just sad.
I'll throw the numbers together using the Crown Vic's gearing and see what it can do
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Old May 15th, 2004, 02:48 PM   #6
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Well I put it into CarTest and got the following numbers:

2000rpm brake-torque launch
60' time- [email protected]
1/8th-mile time- [email protected]
1/4-mile time- [email protected]
Top speed- 149mph

That's decent performance but it isn't worth the poor fuel economy

For comparison purposes, here's how it'd run with the Crown Vic's H.O. 4.6:

2000rpm brake-torque launch
60' time- [email protected]
1/8th-mile time- [email protected]
1/4-mile time- [email protected]
Top speed- 136mph
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Old May 16th, 2004, 11:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by TH23 on May 15th, 2004 at 04:20 PM

You're probably right about it failing to impress the US. I'm just impressed with it because it looks better inside, and out, than anything Ford currently sells here with the exception of the new F150 which looks good, IMO.
Much better than the current Taurus. I can't figure out why they don't use that design in most of there other cars (besides the F150) .

Quote:
Originally posted by TH23 on May 15th, 2004 at 04:20 PM

True, but I was thinking this car would be a good competitor in the same class as the Buick LeSabre or Avalon. The big V8 is nice but I could see the car still being competitive using a smaller, more economical engine.


Would the current 4.6L V8 from the Mustang GT be a good choice and still give the car decent performance?



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Old May 17th, 2004, 03:53 AM   #8
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Originally posted by Plumaccordcoupe on May 17th, 2004 at 01:02 AM


Would the current 4.6L V8 from the Mustang GT be a good choice and still give the car decent performance?
It would be pretty decent , good for low-15's at the track, but the fuel economy would still be pretty bad (probably the same as the Crown Vic).
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Old May 17th, 2004, 04:19 PM   #9
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Holy crap. That IS a tarus with a 5.4L. It woul not only impress but take the domestic american world by storm. It would be like chevy putting the LS series 5.3L in the impala SS. PErformance stock might not be perfect, but I bet a set of headers alone is worth 25-30hp on a setup like that.
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Old May 17th, 2004, 04:33 PM   #10
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that's true. sorta like the LT1 Impala/Caprice SS or whatever that was. Not "that" quick stock. But less than $1000 in mods and you're running well into the 14's.
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Old May 19th, 2004, 10:43 PM   #11
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The Fairmont could be made a helluva sleeper
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Old May 24th, 2004, 11:14 PM   #12
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We might not be getting the Ford BA Fairmont V8 in the United States but we are getting this car: Ford Five Hundred . It looks like a better car, can have AWD (used by Volvo) and a CVT tranny as options. But the only engine I see in all of the text is a 3.0L Duratec V6 .



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Old May 26th, 2004, 12:00 AM   #13
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Good find That Ford 500 looks pretty darn nice, IMO. I guess that it is going to replace the Taurus? I hope so...

Hopefully, they'll find a better engine for it or at least tweak the Duratec for more power. It is going to have either a 6-speed auto or a CVT, so maybe it will still have decent performance afterall. It would be a shame to see such a promising car fail because of a weak powertrain.
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Old September 28th, 2004, 03:13 PM   #14
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More info on the Ford 500:

From C&D: http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1



Ford Five Hundred
Ford's attempt to fill some very large shoes.
BY DAVE VANDERWERP
October 2004

If you remember the Taurus when it was brand-new in 1986, you'll likely remember that it quickly became the turnaround trendsetter that changed Ford's fortunes forever. From that debut year through July 2004, Ford has sold 6.5 million of them, and the Taurus was the bestselling family sedan in the U.S. from 1992 through 1996. No small accomplishment in view of the slick competition from Japanese automakers.

Now comes the car that will inherit the flagship mantle and bear the enormous pressure of at least coming close to the popularity of the Taurus: the Ford Five Hundred.

The importance of this vehicle has caused Ford to rethink offering the traditional sedan/wagon formula of the past. The company has long been aware that the family-car market has moved from traditional wagons to SUVs—indeed, Ford's Explorer is the bestselling sport-ute in the country, and a highly profitable one at that. So the traditional wagon is out, and instead of a Five Hundred wagon, Ford is offering a car-based SUV—the Freestyle.

Ford is also hedging its bet, as the current Taurus will be sold side by side with this new Five Hundred. Just one of two factories where the Taurus was built gets the assignment for the Five Hundred.

A new car begins with a chassis, and instead of using the Taurus platform, Ford went upscale and plucked the P2 platform from Volvo, the Swedish automaker Ford has owned since 1999. This is the same front-drive, transverse-engine layout with struts up front and a multilink setup in the back that's used in all the bigger Volvos, from the S60 sedan to the XC90 sport-ute. Pulling such a premium platform down-market is most unusual.



This P2 platform uses the electronically controlled Haldex system that provides all-wheel drive on various Volvos, and Ford has carried this option over to the Five Hundred. This is a first for a Ford sedan, and on the Five Hundred, it's offered on any trim level as a stand-alone $1700 option.

With a meager engine cupboard, Ford finds itself in the unenviable position of offering only one engine for this family hauler: a not particularly powerful Duratec DOHC 3.0-liter V-6 (also the only engine for the Freestyle) that makes 203 horsepower, originally introduced in 1996 as a 2.5-liter in the Contour. In this iteration, the Duratec V-6 gets an electronic throttle and reduced LEV II emissions, managing three horsepower more than the 3.0-liter currently used in the Taurus and Escape.

Transferring power to the wheels are two transmissions. A first for Ford is a "gearless" continually variable transmission (CVT), which is found on entry-level SE front-drive models as well as on any all-wheel-drive Five Hundred. The other is a traditional six-speed automatic purchased from Aisin-Warner, longtime Toyota supplier, that is standard equipment on up-level two-wheel-drive SEL and Limited sedans.

When questioned about CVT durability—that issue killed GM's CVT—Ford engineers assured us that has been adequately addressed, and they expressed no additional concerns about having a CVT with all-wheel drive. The engineers point to the belt in GM's unit as the weak point and claim the Luk chain (the same supplier of Audi's chains) used in Ford's version will not cause problems. We hope they're right, because with every all-wheel-drive Five Hundred and all Freestyles teamed with the gearless box, Ford will soon be building more CVTs than anyone else. Any problems could turn off the public's acceptance of the CVT and spell disaster for Ford.

On the plus side, the CVT (and the six-speed) has a broad ratio span (highest gear ratio divided by lowest gear ratio, which is six for both transmissions), which can offset the lack of power. But we're not sure the driving public is prepared to accept wringing this engine out at its noisy power peak to achieve the so-so performance we experienced behind the wheel in a brief drive at the preview.

At 200.7 inches long, 74.5 inches wide, and 60.1 inches tall, the Five Hundred is 3.1 inches longer, 4.5 inches taller, and 1.5 inches wider than the Taurus. These also exceed the respective dimensions of Chrysler's 300 sedans and the largest P2 platform buddy, the Volvo S80.

Interior space is quite good. At 55 cubic feet, the room up front is slightly less than you'll find in the Taurus and 300, each by just one cubic foot. But 53 cubic feet in the back seat is more spacious than in either car. There is enough space for over-six-footers to find comfort, in front or in the rear. The Five Hundred's trunk is vast, with 21 cubic feet of storage. Ford says you can put eight golf bags in the trunk, but the company makes no claim to being able to accommodate that many golfers in the cabin.

We find the big Five Hundred's look a bit uninspired; this is not a car that will draw a lot of attention. But history tells us that's not necessarily a disqualifier in this segment.

From behind the wheel, the controls appear well laid out, but the interior materials are a disappointment. The plastic looks bargain-basement, not up to par with the competition. On the other hand, the many standard features are welcome. All Five Hundreds come with a power driver's seat, fold-down rear seats, 17-inch aluminum wheels (18-inchers are optional), four-wheel anti-lock brakes, brake-based traction control, remote keyless entry, air conditioning, and a CD player.

With an estimated base price of $23,000—roughly $1000 less than a Taurus with the same Duratec V-6, and similar to the 300's $23,595 base—Ford is hoping to sell 125,000 Five Hundreds in the first year. If you value space over power, this new sedan is worth a serious look.

FORD FIVE HUNDRED
Vehicle type: front-engine, front- or 4-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan
Estimated base price: $23,000-$28,500
Engine type: DOHC 24-valve V-6, iron aluminum block and heads, port fuel injection
Displacement: 181 cu in, 2967cc
Power (SAE net): 203 bhp @ 5750 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 207 lb-ft @ 4500 rpm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Transmissions: 6-speed automatic, continuously variable automatic
Wheelbase: 112.9 in
Length/width/height: 200.7/74.5/60.1 in
Curb weight: 3650-3850 lb
C/D-estimated performance:
Zero to 60 mph: 8.6-8.8 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 16.7-16.9 sec
Projected fuel economy (mfr's est):
EPA city driving: 19-21 mpg
EPA highway driving: 26-29 mpg

Much better than the Taurus in every way, shape and form. If I wanted one of these, I would get it with the CVT tranny and AWD option .



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Old October 21st, 2004, 09:15 PM   #15
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More Ford info:

From here: http://www.donlen.com/customer_care_oct2004.html

2005 Five Hundred Standard Transmission Change – The Five Hundred SE FWD (front wheel drive) will be equipped with a standard 6-speed automatic transmission verses the previously announced continuously variable transmission (CVT). The CVT will be a stand-alone free flow option (option code 44A) on the SE but will remain the standard transmission on all wheel drive (AWD) models. Production for the 6-speed transmission begins on 10/04/04 but Ford anticipates a slow ramp-up period while capacity constraints are resolved. The 44A option code is not currently a selectable option but will be in several weeks.

Ford Crown Victoria Future Plans - Ford is contemplating dropping the Crown Victoria from its retail offerings with the forthcoming debut of the 2005 Ford Five Hundred sedan this fall. Current plans are to offer the Crown Victoria to fleets only since the majority (over 75 per cent) of those sold in the 2003 calendar year were purchased by police departments, taxi companies, government fleet operations and various other commercial fleet accounts. The decision on the future of the Crown Victoria is expected in the next 12 to 18 months.

From Motortrend: http://motortrend.com/future/spied/1...vf/index3.html

2006 Ford Fusion : Midsize sedan derived from the Mazda 6 (CD3 platform) to slot between the Focus and Five Hundred. Will be offered with a 2.3-liter four cylinder, 3.0-liter V-6, and a hybrid drivetrain shared with the Escape. The original "Futura" name was scrapped after a trademark conflict with Pep Boys, who applies the name to a tire line.


Ok, Fords 2006 MY sedan lineup will most likely consist of the Ford Focus, Ford Fusion (Taurus replacement), and Ford Five Hundred. Not sure what the Fusion is all about but I can already tell this sedan lineup will be much better than what was offered for Fords 2004 sedan lineup . The 3.0L V6 in the Ford Five Hundred will probably be replaced with the rumored 3.5L V6 for it's 2006 MY.



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Old October 22nd, 2004, 11:59 PM   #16
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Holy crap. That IS a tarus with a 5.4L. It woul not only impress but take the domestic american world by storm. It would be like chevy putting the LS series 5.3L in the impala SS. PErformance stock might not be perfect, but I bet a set of headers alone is worth 25-30hp on a setup like that.
im not sure the Impala is getting the LS4 (5.3L) but the Grand Prix gets a LS4 good for 300hp 300torque in its GXP model
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