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Old July 10th, 2003, 11:26 PM   #1
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2004 Camry SE V6 to get 3.3L

This is not confirmed, but it seems to make at least some sense...

http://www.toyotanation.com/showthre...threadid=18722

The new 3.3 liter V6 VVT-i engine will be in the '04 Solara, Camry SE, Highlander, Avalon and mini-vans. The new engine will also be used in the new Lexus ES330 and RX330 as expected. The Camry with V6 engines (except SE model) will continue to receive the 3.0 liter VVT-i until the current inventory is depleted. It is thought the inventory of 3.0 liter VVT-i engines will last through approximately mid-year.
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Old July 11th, 2003, 12:36 AM   #2
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Wow, Toyota is getting serious That'll be two major engine revisions in just two years for the Camry. I thought they'd at least want a little bit of power difference between the ES and Camry. I know that they had the exact same engine for 5 model years(6 including the 2003s with VVT-i)but back in the early to mid '90s there was a bigger difference between the two than there is now. Now you can get a loaded Camry XLE that is easily more luxurious than any ES from '92-'96 and close to the '97-'01 model. I think it's going to be a little tougher for Toyota to convince buyers that the ES330 is worth the several grand premium over a loaded Camry XLE. If they'd kept the power difference between the two, it would make the choice a little bit easier and the ES would sell a little better. That doesn't always work though. Look at the 6th-gen AV6 vs. the 3.2TL. Even with the 25HP difference, people argued that the AV6 was a better value because it offered a lot of the TL's features and wasn't much slower Of course these people never knew that there's a 30WTQ difference between the two in the low-end I about cried when I learned this. I did cry when got to drive my friends 2003 TL. It didn't even have to top 2500rpm to effortlessly carry 3 people around town with the A/C on:bawl:

As for the other cars in Toyota's lineup benefitting from the 3.3L engine: The Highlander definitely needs the 3.3L V6 now that it is facing competition from the Pilot and the Murano. It's already fast with the 3.0 so I imagine it's gonna be hella-quick with the 3.3L The Sienna definitely needed the 3.3L as there were many complaints about the van's lack of power compared to the competition especially the 240HP Odyssey. As for the Avalon, it should've had a more powerful engine all along due to its size and weight.

I think Toyota is going in the right direction Now I hope Honda follows suit and starts working on fitting the J35 into the Accord.
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Old July 11th, 2003, 12:47 AM   #3
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Note:

2004 Camry LE V6 = 3.0L 1MZ-FE, 210 HP
2004 Camry XLE V6 = 3.0L 1MZ-FE, 210 HP
2004 Camry SE V6 = 3.3L 3MZ-FE, 225 HP

According to this, ONLY the SE trim is getting the 3.3L. The LE/XLE will stick with the 3.0L. If I read that correctly. That would still help to separate the Camry XLE from the ES330. There is no "sport trim" of the ES.

Our Highlander is already plenty quick with the 3.0L engine. It seriously doesn't need any more under the hood. You don't even need rev it beyond 3500rpm most of the time, and it's perfectly happy to haul itself around town in top gear in the 2000 rpm range.

As for Highlander vs Pilot...

220 HP and 3880 lb > 240 HP and 4439 lb

The Pilot has 9% more power, but 14% more weight. Overall power to weight ratio favors the Highlander by 5%.

Last edited by SteVTEC; July 11th, 2003 at 12:52 AM..
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Old July 11th, 2003, 01:14 AM   #4
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Okay. So there will be a difference between the Camry XLE and the ES for at least half of the 2004 model year. After that, it looks like Toyota is going to discontinue the production of the 1MZ-FE and adopt the 3MZ-FE for the other Camry models.

I didn't realize that there was that much of a weight difference between the Highlander and Pilot, 559lbs I guess the Pilot's 5-speed automatic is what helps it get such decent acceleration times for its weight. Even though the Highlander beats or matches its performance(depending on the mag times), the Pilot has the on-paper advantage. Unfortunately, people often fall for the advertised power advantage without considering the other very important factors involved like weight-to-power and area under the curve.
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Old July 11th, 2003, 02:04 AM   #5
 
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Dam Toyota means business .

But what they are doing might hurt Lexus's sales since they are going to give the cars the same engine. This has already proven that it does a good amount of damage to the luxury brand. Just look at Nissan and Infiniti and you will see what I mean.

Toyota wants back into the power game really badly .



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Old July 11th, 2003, 02:08 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by TH23 on July 11th, 2003 at 03:14 AM

Even though the Highlander beats or matches its performance(depending on the mag times), the Pilot has the on-paper advantage.
I'm convinced that one or possibly a few of the Honda Pilots in the press fleet are flat out factory ringers. MT got a 15.9 @ 87 for the Pilot the last time they tested it. Gimme a break. An AV6 won't even do that for the most part. I had to dial-in damn near 300 HP and TQ to replicate that time in CarTest. I was going to write-in asking MT if they were sure that their test Pilot didn't have rocket packs attached to it, because its 1/4 mile time was flat out defying the laws of physics. Either that or they ran it on their infamous "downhill" 1/4 mile track and ran the other cars on level ground. I would have just completely owned them and it wouldn't have been published anyways.

I really do like the Pilot. If we needed more space (and it was out sooner) we would have bought one instead of the Highlander without hesitation, but sorry, it ain't running no 15.9.

Quote:
Unfortunately, people often fall for the advertised power advantage without considering the other very important factors involved like weight-to-power and area under the curve.
Yup.
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Old July 11th, 2003, 02:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by PlumAccordCoupe on July 11th, 2003 at 04:04 AM

Dam Toyota means business .

But what they are doing might hurt Lexus's sales since they are going to give the cars the same engine. This has already proven that it does a good amount of damage to the luxury brand. Just look at Nissan and Infiniti and you will see what I mean.

Toyota wants back into the power game really badly .
The I35 was literally just a rebadged Maxima GLE with some different trim and interior stuff. Poor sales. The ES is more than just a rebadged Camry though. The Camry and ES used to be extremely similar sorta like the Maxima/I35, but Toyota wised up and did a lot more to separate them.

I don't think a 3.3L Camry SE is going to have a significant impact on ES330 sales. Different target buyer, much different styling. The Maxima/I35/I30 were always just too similar though, and the target audience was too similar which meant they were competing for sales with each other and people just went with the cheaper Maxima since it was pretty much the same. Same thing with the older ES and Camry's.
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Old July 12th, 2003, 01:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by SteVTEC on July 11th, 2003 at 04:08 AM

I'm convinced that one or possibly a few of the Honda Pilots in the press fleet are flat out factory ringers. MT got a 15.9 @ 87 for the Pilot the last time they tested it. Gimme a break. An AV6 won't even do that for the most part. I had to dial-in damn near 300 HP and TQ to replicate that time in CarTest. I was going to write-in asking MT if they were sure that their test Pilot didn't have rocket packs attached to it, because its 1/4 mile time was flat out defying the laws of physics. Either that or they ran it on their infamous "downhill" 1/4 mile track and ran the other cars on level ground. I would have just completely owned them and it wouldn't have been published anyways.

I really do like the Pilot. If we needed more space (and it was out sooner) we would have bought one instead of the Highlander without hesitation, but sorry, it ain't running no 15.9.

Actually, your letter probably would've made it into the magazine. Trust me, I always read the Mail section due to the entertainment value of many of the letters. They tend to chose mail that really stands out and yours definitely would've stood out I probably would've started reading yours and thought to myself, "Hey, this looks like something SteVTEC would write" and then upon reading the name of the author, "It is SteVTEC! lol".

Seriously though, I think Honda has a deal with MT. I believe they slip MT a nice check each month in exchange for favorable reviews and test results. Take the May 2002 issue that contained a 5-car family-sedan comparison test for example. The test results for the Impala, Taurus, Altima and Camry were pretty much right on the money and pretty consistent with other times I'd seen. The 2002 Accord ran an impossible [email protected] which put it ahead of all but the Altima. There's no way a stock 6th gen could run a 15.8. Heck, many guys here can't even run that low with i/h/e! BNUT doesn't count because he obviously has a ringer with his 15.5 intake-only run The Accord MT tested was either A)a ringer or B)given special treatment. By special treatment I mean MT's downhill test track in the middle of the night. What's sad is that article sealed the deal on the AV6 for me. I was so gullible but I guess it wasn't completely my fault Back then, that article didn't raise any suspicion because one of their previous tests of the AV6 was similar: 0-60 in 7.6 and [email protected] in 2001 test of EX V6 sedan. They also recorded 7.4 and [email protected] in 1999 for an LX V6 coupe but this makes sense because it was the lightest AV6. The slowest(and most realistic) results for an AV6 in MT were: 0-60 in 8.1 and [email protected] in 12/99 test of 2000 EX V6 sedan. In that same test, the Camry's #s were 8.0 and [email protected] and the Maxima's #s were [email protected](must've forgotten to shift it manually). Being young and stupid, I ignored that last test because it was the slowest. Oh well, I've learned my lesson since then thanks to this board and you SteVTEC

Car and Driver is just about as bad but I'm not going to get into that one right now. Let's just say that any car mag that records a 16-second ET for a TL Type S is teh ghey(sorry VTEC V6! )
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Old July 12th, 2003, 01:39 AM   #9
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Yup, you and I were both owned by these stupid mags.

SteVTEC, circa 2000
Quote:
Well damn, I know the Maxima has more power and torque, but the Accord V6 is faster. See? Look, it says so right there in the magazine.
Well ya know what I say about that now?



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Old July 12th, 2003, 02:56 AM   #10
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This is an AV6.


This is an AV6 after taking it in the *** from the more powerful Nissan Maxima.
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Old July 12th, 2003, 03:54 AM   #11
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by SteVTEC on July 12th, 2003 at 03:39 AM

Yup, you and I were both owned by these stupid mags.

SteVTEC, circa 2000

Well ya know what I say about that now?

Dam you were just as ignorant as I was . But man your car took a hard hit .

And TH23, I don't find your joke funny. Oh who am I kidding, it's really funny .



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Old July 12th, 2003, 05:30 AM   #12
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Originally posted by PlumAccordCoupe on July 12th, 2003 at 05:54 AM

But man your car took a hard hit .
Seriously That was one helluva impact! I thought my accident was bad but when I first saw Steve's wrecked car, I was like DAAAAAYYYYAAAMMM!

Quote:
And TH23, I don't find your joke funny. Oh who am I kidding, it's really funny .


Here's my car when it was wrecked last year. Not nearly as bad as Steve's but still managed to total $8k in parts/labor.

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Old July 12th, 2003, 07:13 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by PlumAccordCoupe on July 12th, 2003 at 05:54 AM

Dam you were just as ignorant as I was
Yup

But to this day I still don't regret buying the car because I learned so much from it. Most of them were lessons learned the hard way , but oh well.


BTW Plum, you too have come a very long way since joining these forums. I am happy for that.
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Old July 12th, 2003, 07:15 AM   #14
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Originally posted by TH23 on July 12th, 2003 at 04:56 AM



This is an AV6.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/stevtecv6/sig/AV6_lg.jpg

This is an AV6 after taking it in the *** from the more powerful Nissan Maxima.
http://members.cox.net/stevtec/AV6_owned.jpg
Some guy at Altimas.net actually put together a REALLY funny animated gif from those two pictures. If you go over there and search you might be able to find it.
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Old July 17th, 2003, 09:13 PM   #15
 
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Originally posted by SteVTEC on July 12th, 2003 at 09:13 AM

BTW Plum, you too have come a very long way since joining these forums. I am happy for that.
Why thank you .



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