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Old May 22nd, 2006, 06:31 PM   #1
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Cool Blown C4 Vette VS TonytheTiger's Turbo v6 Camry

Centerfugally blown C4 Vette
VS
*Completely* built (around 15-20usd grand) '94 v6 1mz-fe (still 3.0L boosting on 10.2:1 CR!) Camry. GT40/88 @ 12psi (392fwhp - 501bhp) That's not even full boost!?, 4500rpm stall T/C, Fully IPT built transmission.

Everything on the car changed, everything about it custom (Tony & his brother own a Custom performance shop in Canada.) The Biggest, Baddest Camry/ES/Windom on the planet.
*Bump Updated*
Quote:
I also have a natural gear-based boost control. This friggin' big GT40R doesn't give me full boost on 1st gear...LOL I only get 12-14 psi at 1st gear. When 2nd gear hits, the car is travelling fast enough so the full 20-22 PSI can come in and my car still bites traction. On the video, you can see that I have a power deficit at first gear (the vette pulls clean even when both of us caught traction), but when my 2nd gear came, I had full power and it manage to pull it back. And the rest of the gears was self explanatory.
Higher quality vid now hosted by Sean's blazing server. (Give it 15min from this post to upload).
*Bump Updated*
Runs are 0-130mph & 0-124mph.
For anyone wondering, The weight should be within a hundred pounds, or so. The Aero cd is the same, with the vette having a smaller frontal section (around 19.4^2ft VS 22.7^2ft)

If anyone has ever doubted me that until you hit *insane* power levels - FWD = RWD *when* given the same supporting mods (LSD/differential geometry, suspension geometry). This is a great example of that!

Last edited by Toysrme; May 23rd, 2006 at 01:58 AM..
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 09:30 AM   #2
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damn. thats one fast grocery getter.
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 09:53 AM   #3
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Wow, that is awesome!!! PROPS to tony!!
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 01:56 PM   #4
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I'm seriously speechless on this on guys.

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Old May 24th, 2006, 05:51 PM   #5
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That is one crazy camry!!!!!
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Old May 24th, 2006, 06:03 PM   #6
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WOW a camry im still pikin up my face from the floor
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Old May 24th, 2006, 10:49 PM   #7
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do we have any times on this camry?
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Old May 25th, 2006, 10:29 AM   #8
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hey wasup tony

i didn't know you were a member on here too.

your camry is a freaken beast! hit me up on aim i20solara02i need some input from you.
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Old May 25th, 2006, 01:16 PM   #9
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Man that thing is fast.

Both cars are also amazingly quiet from the video.
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Old May 25th, 2006, 11:23 PM   #10
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What kind of power is this Camry producing at full boost? 1/4 mile times?



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Old May 27th, 2006, 06:30 PM   #11
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Cool

plum, full boost right now is limited to 24psi on pump gas w' water/alcohol injection. On previous dynos. It should be 440-460whp, which would put it at 563-588bhp.
Remember... That's running 10.5:1 compression pistons too. From talking to tony, that's as far as he wants to push it until he can get some 9.2:1 CR pistons put in.
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Old May 29th, 2006, 06:47 PM   #12
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Wow that was interesting. I'm just getting a solara 2001 V6 and i;m gonna start working on it soon. Just wondering if you know where i can get maybe an underdrive pulley? And an ecu upgrade? thanx
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Old May 29th, 2006, 06:54 PM   #13
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Old June 30th, 2006, 12:51 PM   #14
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Hey Toysrme, thanks for spreading the news

My recent dyno netted 462 WHP and 431 ft-lbs @ 22 psi... This is on 10.5:1 CR and 94 oct pump gas. It is also the same boost and setup as seen in the video

It was sort of a mistake to go with that compression ratio, but in a way, it was more of an unexpected issue. My goal was always 500WHP or a little more, and if I had a manual 5spd, I would have reached there long ago. Ths automatic transmission is pretty darn power hungry, and all that power at the engine only netted me 462 @ wheels.
At the last dyno session, I've ran into some detonation... I increased the water jets for the water injection and got rid of the detonation, but power also went down as well. I could no longer extract any more power out of this setup, so it means I've hit a brick wall. The next thing is either race gas, or lower the compression.

I've kept high compression because during the build, I was considering a 5spd swap. The higher compression would help deliver a smoother powerband, and the car would be a lot more street friendly. Turned out that I found a place who was willing to tackle a Camry transmission, and the owner of the company (IPT trans) really knew his way around Toyota transmissions. The built automatic with high stall T/C was fun as hell, and the car bites like crazy with no traction issues. Now with the high stall automatic, the higher compression doesn't do much at all. The engine never accelerates below 4500RPM whenever the engine is loaded anyway.

So to fulfill my goals, I am in the process of swapping to 9.0:1 CR pistons The cool thing is, even at 460ish WHP, the car had ZERO traction issues (as seen on video!). So I am beginning to wonder if I should even stop at 500WHP? I'd figure I keep making power until I start spinning all over the place.. If at 600WHP, the car still doesn't have traction issues, I'd keep making more power
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Old June 30th, 2006, 01:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloy213
do we have any times on this camry?
You know, I've been constantly upgrading the car that I never had a chance to take it to the track... I do live pretty far away, 2+ hours away from the track, and I didn't want to trailor the car there either (I was trying to avoid long trips with the car during its construction stage).

And here in Toronto, there have always been harassment from cops and stuff... The last time I was at the track with my Integra, they had a stupid spot check right outside the track. I was always afraid of running into one of these spot checks with the Camry a year ago because I never really ironed out all the small details and keeping it visually legal. Right now though, I am good to go because I've made finish touches to keep everything legal (closed PCV system, all emissions stuff in check, etc...).

So once I can get a few of my buddies together (and let the heat die down for a bit here in Toronto due to recent "streetracng" related accidents), we'll hit the track to get some numbers finally. I'd be happy with low 13's, but I won't be happy unless I trap more than 120+ MPH Most likely I'll be rolling off the line because I'd hate to bust up the axles on the much sticker track pavement. On the street, you will never launch on this type of pavement, so the car never really goes through the same type of stress.
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Old June 30th, 2006, 03:28 PM   #16
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Man I wish 6th Gens had a tranny to withstand that kind of boost



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Old June 30th, 2006, 06:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony the Tiger
Hey Toysrme, thanks for spreading the news

My recent dyno netted 462 WHP and 431 ft-lbs @ 22 psi... This is on 10.5:1 CR and 94 oct pump gas. It is also the same boost and setup as seen in the video

It was sort of a mistake to go with that compression ratio, but in a way, it was more of an unexpected issue. My goal was always 500WHP or a little more, and if I had a manual 5spd, I would have reached there long ago. Ths automatic transmission is pretty darn power hungry, and all that power at the engine only netted me 462 @ wheels.
At the last dyno session, I've ran into some detonation... I increased the water jets for the water injection and got rid of the detonation, but power also went down as well. I could no longer extract any more power out of this setup, so it means I've hit a brick wall. The next thing is either race gas, or lower the compression.

I've kept high compression because during the build, I was considering a 5spd swap. The higher compression would help deliver a smoother powerband, and the car would be a lot more street friendly. Turned out that I found a place who was willing to tackle a Camry transmission, and the owner of the company (IPT trans) really knew his way around Toyota transmissions. The built automatic with high stall T/C was fun as hell, and the car bites like crazy with no traction issues. Now with the high stall automatic, the higher compression doesn't do much at all. The engine never accelerates below 4500RPM whenever the engine is loaded anyway.

So to fulfill my goals, I am in the process of swapping to 9.0:1 CR pistons The cool thing is, even at 460ish WHP, the car had ZERO traction issues (as seen on video!). So I am beginning to wonder if I should even stop at 500WHP? I'd figure I keep making power until I start spinning all over the place.. If at 600WHP, the car still doesn't have traction issues, I'd keep making more power

What's up man. I'm boostedtl from honda-tech and was wondering if you were a member on this site. Anyway, the dyno @ 22psi listed above, what that with your new gt4088r or the previous t66 I believe you had? Thanks.
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Old June 30th, 2006, 08:08 PM   #18
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I would sure love to know what the power potential for a J30 would be with mods like his ??
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Old July 1st, 2006, 03:19 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor_X

Man I wish 6th Gens had a tranny to withstand that kind of boost


Unfortunately, many of them can't even withstand the power of a stock J30A1 .



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Old July 1st, 2006, 10:23 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony the Tiger
Hey Toysrme, thanks for spreading the news

My recent dyno netted 462 WHP and 431 ft-lbs @ 22 psi... This is on 10.5:1 CR and 94 oct pump gas. It is also the same boost and setup as seen in the video

It was sort of a mistake to go with that compression ratio, but in a way, it was more of an unexpected issue. My goal was always 500WHP or a little more, and if I had a manual 5spd, I would have reached there long ago. Ths automatic transmission is pretty darn power hungry, and all that power at the engine only netted me 462 @ wheels.
At the last dyno session, I've ran into some detonation... I increased the water jets for the water injection and got rid of the detonation, but power also went down as well. I could no longer extract any more power out of this setup, so it means I've hit a brick wall. The next thing is either race gas, or lower the compression.

I've kept high compression because during the build, I was considering a 5spd swap. The higher compression would help deliver a smoother powerband, and the car would be a lot more street friendly. Turned out that I found a place who was willing to tackle a Camry transmission, and the owner of the company (IPT trans) really knew his way around Toyota transmissions. The built automatic with high stall T/C was fun as hell, and the car bites like crazy with no traction issues. Now with the high stall automatic, the higher compression doesn't do much at all. The engine never accelerates below 4500RPM whenever the engine is loaded anyway.

So to fulfill my goals, I am in the process of swapping to 9.0:1 CR pistons The cool thing is, even at 460ish WHP, the car had ZERO traction issues (as seen on video!). So I am beginning to wonder if I should even stop at 500WHP? I'd figure I keep making power until I start spinning all over the place.. If at 600WHP, the car still doesn't have traction issues, I'd keep making more power
You and 02AV6 should race!
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Old July 1st, 2006, 11:10 AM   #21
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C4s aren't all that great, I'm not surprised by that outcome. Now if he was killing Lingenfelter C5s/C6s... but those are different class cars.

Anyway, more props to Tony's sleeper Camry... I think he could take Serge on the freeway, because of his killer .28 drag coefficient versus the .32+ of the 6th Gen Accord.
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Old July 1st, 2006, 05:52 PM   #22
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I won't try to make the C4 Vette sound faster than it is, but there are several facts I have to include so you can get a good idea of what I went up against. Plus I gotta give props to the C4 owner as well. The C4 Vette trapped 118 mph when he was running low boost, and it puts down roughly 500 RWHP (the trap also concludes to that). I am unsure of his current numbers so I didn't post his mod list or power numbers on the video. It was one of the faster Vettes I know within the group among a few supercharged Z06's. On the video, the C4 was running higher boost, I am assuming 550+ RWHP? It's centrifugal S/C, so peak numbers are always high, but they lose out in the midrange. From my experiences, this C4 vette is fast, because the Camry takes on bolt-on supercharged Z06's with ease (no video though).

I don't know who Serge is, and in order for him to take the Camry, it has to have a few things: 1. overpowering my car by a good amount 2. being significantly lighter enough to offset the difference in powerband. 3. Or like you've mentioned, be way more aerodynamic

I am sure you know how the powerband is for my car; it is basically peak HP and TQ at almost every gear and at every speed. 4500RPM stall allows that to happen, and the car could only accelerate beyond 4500RPM once the engine is loaded. My powerband from 4500RPM - 6200RPM is flat line, with 462 WHP (and only a slight dip near 6200RPM). For first gear, my car doesn't get full boost so it serves as a nice gear-based boost mechanism But any speed past 60 mph, or beyond 1st gear, the engine is pegging at peak horsepower and torque ALL THE WAY (you can also see that on the video) Basically my power curve is 462 WHP from 60 mph to 175+ mph

The Camry is also under 3000 lbs. Before the wheels and coilovers, the car weighed in at 3020 lbs at a truck scale station (UPS centre) without driver. Now with the wheels at 12 lbs a piece, and coilovers being 20 lbs lighter for all four corners, it is under 3000 lbs Every little counts IMO, and my goal was always to be one of the fastest at a certain power quota. I do like making godly amounts of power, but it is only fun when you can destroy cars making the same, if not, more power


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuya Master
C4s aren't all that great, I'm not surprised by that outcome. Now if he was killing Lingenfelter C5s/C6s... but those are different class cars.

Anyway, more props to Tony's sleeper Camry... I think he could take Serge on the freeway, because of his killer .28 drag coefficient versus the .32+ of the 6th Gen Accord.
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Old July 1st, 2006, 05:59 PM   #23
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What's up man. I'm boostedtl from honda-tech and was wondering if you were a member on this site. Anyway, the dyno @ 22psi listed above, what that with your new gt4088r or the previous t66 I believe you had? Thanks.
I've registered on this site a long time ago, but I guess my account was gone or the forum changed servers. Anyway, the numbers are for the current GT4088R @ 22 psi. I guess I have to give you more realistic numbers so you can use them as a reference. At the engine based on my fuel comsumption numbers, it is about 600-620 BHP. By factoring in about 22% driveline loss from my automatic, I ended up with pretty close numbers as my recent dyno session. If you factor in about 16-17% driveline losses which is a common number for most manual transmissions, it is roughly 520 WHP.
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Old July 1st, 2006, 07:45 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony the Tiger
I've registered on this site a long time ago, but I guess my account was gone or the forum changed servers. Anyway, the numbers are for the current GT4088R @ 22 psi. I guess I have to give you more realistic numbers so you can use them as a reference. At the engine based on my fuel comsumption numbers, it is about 600-620 BHP. By factoring in about 22% driveline loss from my automatic, I ended up with pretty close numbers as my recent dyno session. If you factor in about 16-17% driveline losses which is a common number for most manual transmissions, it is roughly 520 WHP.
Nice, i cant wait to put my new motor and misc stuff on the dyno. Good #'s as always.
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Old July 2nd, 2006, 05:33 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony the Tiger
I am sure you know how the powerband is for my car; it is basically peak HP and TQ at almost every gear and at every speed. 4500RPM stall allows that to happen, and the car could only accelerate beyond 4500RPM once the engine is loaded. My powerband from 4500RPM - 6200RPM is flat line, with 462 WHP (and only a slight dip near 6200RPM). For first gear, my car doesn't get full boost so it serves as a nice gear-based boost mechanism But any speed past 60 mph, or beyond 1st gear, the engine is pegging at peak horsepower and torque ALL THE WAY (you can also see that on the video) Basically my power curve is 462 WHP from 60 mph to 175+ mph
Isn’t that a really unusable powerband for daily driving?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony the Tiger
I've registered on this site a long time ago, but I guess my account was gone or the forum changed servers.
All of the accounts were carried over when we changed servers (AccordV6.com to V6Performance.net). So it's still on here somewhere.



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Old July 3rd, 2006, 09:10 PM   #26
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Isn’t that a really unusable powerband for daily driving?
Yup, stall speed greatly affects daily driving zones. Too high of a stall speed would give the converter a "constant slippage", so you'll see the RPM needle going up and down, but the speed doesn't increase much at all.

Most stock cars have stall speed at around 2000-2200RPM, and that's why you see the RPM needle bounce up first before the car moves forward when going WOT from a standstill. But during mid speed cruising, say 40-45 mph cruising before the T/C locks up, you get this "slippage" when touching the throttle lightly. It doesn't net much acceleration because the RPM's is probably lower than 2200RPM, so the T/C slips.

A high stall speed just magnifies this slippage and brings it up at a higher RPM band. On my particular 4500RPM stall speed T/C, driving at low speeds slips quite a bit, and the first 10-20% throttle usually doesn't do much acceleration. When I begin to dig deeper in the throttle, the engine sees more load and RPM approaches closer to stall speed. This is when the torque converter (T/C) begins to grab better with less slippage. On my Camry, around 3000RPM is when the car begins to pick up nicely during regular street driving, so it's not that much of a problem.

Once I get to speeds at around 40 mph when the car should be at a high cruising gear, I have my AEM EMS programmed to lock up the T/C sooner to prevent slippage that often happens during high gear cruising ranges. Locking up the T/C a bit too soon would result in a slight bogging, but this is something I have to live with I guess. The car still gets close to factory gas mileage during regular driving by locking up the T/C sooner, so I have no prob with that

Stall speed is measured by torque output of an engine. Stalls speed is basically the "engagement point" when the converter begins to grab close to 100%.
So whenever I go full throttle, the RPM instantly jumps up to 4000RPM or so, and immediately the turbo begins to spool and the car accelerates. This would happen at any gear, and at any speed, minding that the speed vs RPM is not above stall speed (ie: 60 mph @ 2nd gear is roughly 5500RPM, so in this case, the engine would just accelerate above stall speed and continue its way to redline). But if I was at 4th gear @ 60 mph, my RPM is "supposed" to be at 2500RPM, but with 4500RPM stall speed, the engine now accelerates above 4500RPM and then run its way to redline. That's why on the video, I early shifted between each gear, because in fact, my car makes peak torque and peak power at 5000-5500RPM and I want the engine to stay there as long as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plumaccordcoupe
All of the accounts were carried over when we changed servers (AccordV6.com to V6Performance.net). So it's still on here somewhere.
It's alright... I've registered a new account anyway, so I guess my account is no longer active. I've used the same email and username too

Last edited by Tony the Tiger; July 3rd, 2006 at 09:15 PM..
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Old July 3rd, 2006, 09:19 PM   #27
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Serge is 02av6 a member on this forum. He has one of the fastest 6th gen accords here.

Here is a thread with his latest achievement.

http://www.v6performance.net/forums/...ad.php?t=73920

I dont know what the outcome of a race between the two of you would be but that is something that i would like to be there for.
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Old July 5th, 2006, 08:30 PM   #28
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Serge is 02av6 a member on this forum. He has one of the fastest 6th gen accords here.

Here is a thread with his latest achievement.

http://www.v6performance.net/forums/...ad.php?t=73920

I dont know what the outcome of a race between the two of you would be but that is something that i would like to be there for.

Sometimes I wish I were in the States... I am all the way up in Canada, and it is slim to none to run into any fast imports, so let's not even talk about Accords...! It's fun and all to flex some muscle and do some runs against each other, but the best part of all is to meet up and hang out, and talk about out setups, share our experiences and wealth of knowledge. I like to ask for rides especially

At this rate, looks like I need to get some track times soon... Too much talk is boring, and although I am all about power and traction on the streets, I still like to see what my car traps at the drag strip. I am not too concerned about the actual 1/4mile ET because it only depends if I feel like spending money on a set of slicks or bust my axles. It never happens on the streets, so the times on slicks or drag radials doesn't appeal to me that much.
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Old July 6th, 2006, 06:35 AM   #29
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Talking

^^^^^ WE CHALLENGE YOU TO A DUAL!!!

haha whats up Tony.. you know iam just going to keep recruiting and recruiting LOL... *COUGH* GT-R FRIDAY!!

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Old July 19th, 2006, 01:17 AM   #30
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toyota's got potential!
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