Accord V6 Forum banner
1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
indoctidiscant
Joined
·
3,790 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
as if toyota wasnt wiping out the domestic oems enough, check out what they just did..

if this engine technology is applied to the corolla and the tundra, toyota can effectively price these models much more competitively and just slowly but surely wipe out the domestic oems.

oh doom is we....



Toyota's 'Simple Slim' Cuts Costs of Camry Engines 50 Percent
2006-02-20 17:03 (New York)


By John Lippert
Feb. 21 (Bloomberg) -- Foundry workers at a Toyota Motor Corp.
plant in Troy, Missouri, laughed out loud back in 2003 when Toyota
Executive Vice President Kosuke Shiramizu traveled from Japan and
gave them a new assignment: Cut in half the cost of building V-6
engines for the company's Camry sedan by 2005.
``We were thinking they were either crazy or didn't really
mean it,'' says Robert Lloyd, 51, who, as president of Toyota's
Bodine Aluminum Inc. unit, would be expected to deliver on
Shiramizu's goal.
Shiramizu, however, had a secret weapon. Back in Japan, 300
engineers were working on a new technology for pouring molten
aluminum into molds to create parts for engines. The new equipment,
part of a larger Toyota cost-cutting program called Simple Slim,
allows Toyota to use smaller and cheaper molds.
The new engine technology is now in use not only at Bodine,
which Toyota bought in 1990, but also at foundries in Japan and
China. Partly as a result, the cost of building an engine for the
redesigned Camry that was scheduled to go on sale in March will be
about $1,000, half the cost of an engine for the previous
generation of Camrys, says Gary Convis, executive vice president
for North American manufacturing.
``It's amazing how Toyota can cut costs even further,'' says
Atsushi Osa, whose $4.1 billion fund at Sumitomo Mitsui Asset
Management Co. in Tokyo includes automotive shares. ``This
definitely gives them a competitive edge over their rivals.''
 

·
"Certified Hybrid Killer"
Joined
·
5,056 Posts
hmmmm.... well there's a lot of ways to cook the numbers on that one. Does that include all of the non-recurring engineering costs (engineering, development, prototyping, etc) or is it just the raw cost of materials for the engine. And does it include assembly costs along with manufacturing facility costs? And is the $1000 for the V-6 or I-4? The context suggests the V-6, but it really could go either way. If actual cost for the V-6 is $1000, then that just goes to show how absurd the markup is on a new engine from the dealership if you happen to blow yours. Typical quotes for an OHC V-6 are $6000-8000. :p

If you compare this to a GM pushrod V-6, I bet the GM engine still ends up being cheaper. Machining costs are a lot lower for a 2v head vs 4v, significantly lower parts count (12 valves vs 24, 1 cam vs 2 or 4, etc). GM also uses iron for the block which is cheaper than aluminum, and I think molding and machining are cheaper on iron also.

edit: BTW they won't lower their prices. It'll just increase their profit margins, lol. And I wonder what the tradeoffs were for such a huge cost reduction too. Nothing is for free in the engineering world. If you gain big in one place, you tend to lose out in another.
 

·
indoctidiscant
Joined
·
3,790 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
actually both GM and Ford are running into huge cost overruns on their engines. and this btw is a legit 50% reduction in costs.

i am crapping myself, with what this means for JL french and Intermet.

btw heres a quick number crunch on what RM is a percentage of overall cost of an engine

Doing some quick number crunching

1) engine used to cost $2000 (now costs $1000)
2) engine is 55 lbs (27% lighter). This would make the original engine 204lbs.
3) aluminum was at an all time high at $1.194/lb
4) 204lbs of aluminum required to cast an engine. Using 25% waste, total aluminum required is approximately 250lbs.
5) total RM cost = 250*1.194 = $304
6) $304/2000= ~15%

Based on that analysis RMs is nowhere near half the cost. I too am baffled.

I would presume a significant portion of casting an engine is the mold formation and energy costs. As well as time and the machinery required. This technology requires under 2500lbs of pressure, versus 3500lbs required previously.
 

·
indoctidiscant
Joined
·
3,790 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
i have the complete article if you are interested. pm me your email or whatever format you prefer.
 

·
Formerly VTEC-v6!
Joined
·
5,254 Posts
OwAce's Article that he didn't read all the way :p said:
The new equipment,
part of a larger Toyota cost-cutting program called Simple Slim,
allows Toyota to use smaller and cheaper molds.
It's not that they are saving on the engine materials by itself...they said specifically that they are cutting down on the cost of the casting equipment in the foundries.

ALSO, with a little engineering, they can convert their other casting molds for other blocks beside the GR to use the new molds also...cookie cutter price cuts across the board? Using the GR series in a ton of new toyotas *cough* VQ.

Toyota owns j00! :p
 

·
indoctidiscant
Joined
·
3,790 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
VTEC-v6! said:
It's not that they are saving on the engine materials by itself...they said specifically that they are cutting down on the cost of the casting equipment in the foundries.

:p
to put it in 3rd grader words yes.
 

·
Formerly VTEC-v6!
Joined
·
5,254 Posts
I'm just giving you a hard time :p
 

·
indoctidiscant
Joined
·
3,790 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
zany said:
with all the money toyota can save.. they can buy honda and make some mad vtec corollas
actually they could run a country. they have more money than the Bank of Japan. :eek:


ok so im not sure on that but they have 2 trillion yen in liquid securities, and 1.5 trillion yen in investments.
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top