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Discussion Starter #1
this isnt exactly news or anything, but it just bugs me that dodge doesnt tune their 3.5 to run on premium (they make 250hp on regular or midgrade) and put it in something other than an intrepid or magnum.. a 3.5 stratus would be a nice little car, but in the big cars they stick it in its only so so.

i mean, they do pretty well, all the way back in 93 the intrepid was running high 15s with the 3.5 and the super parasitic 606 trannies, while even in 99 the maxima was praised for running high 15s with an auto that was less parasitic and the car weighed about 300 lbs less. the newish 3.5 lh cars like the intrepid r/t and lhs and intrepid sxt still run high 15s with 40 more hp at 3800+lbs, but dodge flat refuses for some reason to stick it in something reasonable like a stratus.

the prowler proved a 3.5 in a 3000 lb car could run 14s, and dodge has been sadly lacking a real midsize sport sedan since the old spirit r/t. the spirit didnt even handle well, but it had the power to make up for it.

the current stratus r/t sedan is a nice package, but it only runs high 15s with a 5 speed. low 16s with an auto... truly a great advance in technology when a car thats 10 years newer and makes 50 more hp and weighs about the same runs the same times as my freaking dynasty.

anyway dodge has done plenty of stupid things over the years, and this is a lost cause, i think, because DC will never approve dodge spending money doing anything that somehow doesnt involve phasing in benz's parts, but this is just my little rant on how dodge could have done some interesting things with a very decent engine and didnt.

on the topic of dodge and good engines and missed opportunities, i could go on and on, it sucks.

opinions?

and if you're a nissan or mazda or honda guy i dont need the bashing, im well aware of how different manufacturer's competing engines stack up and im not trying to start anything. ;)
 

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Dodge wont do it because they dont need too :D They have performance products with things like the SRT-4, they don't need a awsome performance model for each line of car. I mean if we are really talking "why not" then how come I haven't seen a neon with a HEMI yet? That would kick the SRT-4's arse to hell and back while still at idle :naughty:
 

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VIGO!!! YOU HERETIC. You should be kicked off of DI.net for such slander of the mighty and powerful DC Corp.

:)

I agree, though. Put a 3.5 in any of the two-door DC cars and rename it V6ECLIPSEATER. Which brings to mind the fact that all manufacturers have made mistakes. I test drove a V-6 Eclipse when they first came out after having driven a 99 GST. All I could say was WTF?
 

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Don't worry...it's the 60's all over again. Maybe DC will reign supreme once again as they did back in the 60's. I hear they're reviving the Charger and dropping a Hemi in it. :naughty:

And the 300C is friggin sweet. BMW 545i / E500 level performance and roominess for $20k less. :up2:
 

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Pfft..

Charger is gonna get embaressed bythe Pontiac G8.

'specially if they put a vette engine in the for GXP model... ;)

Does Ford have any soon-to-be muscle car entries coming out?
 

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what's the G8? :confused:
 

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The GXP is out and uses a northstar 4.6L, they wont put anything bigger in a FWD mid sized platform. The new one being RWD is a different story though..... Steve, DC was supreme in the 60's? Never heard of a chevy big block huh? :laugh: :p
 

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OHV said:
Grand Prix, Bonneville replacement.

RWD, Zeta platform.
iiiiiiiiiiiinteresting :)

They just redesigned the GP for 04, so this sounds like it's a ways off though. Any timeframes?
 

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bored&stroked said:
Steve, DC was supreme in the 60's? Never heard of a chevy big block huh? :laugh: :p
Yeah I have, and it's too bad that they couldn't put them in a lot of their smaller and lighter cars back then due to the GM 400ci limit on those types of cars. The multi-carb restriction didn't help either. The goat had to go from three deuces to a single quad after that. :p


Chrysler didn't put any crap limits like that in place, hence you had Chrysler 440's and the rare 426 street Hemi running around kicking butt everywhere they went. :cool:
 

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SteVTEC said:
Yeah I have, and it's too bad that they couldn't put them in a lot of their smaller and lighter cars back then due to the GM 400ci limit on those types of cars. The multi-carb restriction didn't help either. The goat had to go from three deuces to a single quad after that. :p
400ci limit? Nope. For somthing like the chevy II [nova] it was a matter of the sub frame not letting anything bigger then a small block in there, which maxed at 400cid. When the 396/375hp came out in the chevelles they wasted everything and dominated drag racing for a long time. In fact, GM's lightest cars during the "time of the big block" were the camaro and vette, both of which were offerd with everything including the all aluminum 500hp [rated 425] 427cid big block, and the vette had 454 options as well [even a LS6 450hp option] Interesting side note, the vette had two options for 427's at one point. There was the 425hp ZL1 option with a single 4bbl carb, no radio, a/c etc. and then there was the tri-power setup rated at 435hp. They did this because they didn't want the average joe blow to come off the streets with a 327 and choose the biggest motor possable and loose control. So they rated the ZL1 way below its actuall and 10hp less then the next engine down so the average people who didn't know got the less powerfull engine :D As for carbs, they switched because they finally learned :D The Qjet flows 800cfm on the goat, compared to maybe 900cfm for the triple 2bbls, and the fuel distribution on the single 4bbl intake is MUCH better. I would take a single 4bbl over anything else except FI.

I'll make you and denali domestic lovers yet, you'll see ;)
 

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bored&stroked said:
400ci limit? Nope. For somthing like the chevy II [nova] it was a matter of the sub frame not letting anything bigger then a small block in there, which maxed at 400cid. When the 396/375hp came out in the chevelles they wasted everything and dominated drag racing for a long time. In fact, GM's lightest cars during the "time of the big block" were the camaro and vette, both of which were offerd with everything including the all aluminum 500hp [rated 425] 427cid big block, and the vette had 454 options as well [even a LS6 450hp option] Interesting side note, the vette had two options for 427's at one point. There was the 425hp ZL1 option with a single 4bbl carb, no radio, a/c etc. and then there was the tri-power setup rated at 435hp. They did this because they didn't want the average joe blow to come off the streets with a 327 and choose the biggest motor possable and loose control. So they rated the ZL1 way below its actuall and 10hp less then the next engine down so the average people who didn't know got the less powerfull engine :D As for carbs, they switched because they finally learned :D The Qjet flows 800cfm on the goat, compared to maybe 900cfm for the triple 2bbls, and the fuel distribution on the single 4bbl intake is MUCH better. I would take a single 4bbl over anything else except FI.
:Owned:

So why does this book I have say that GM imposed a 400cid limit on thier mid-sized and smaller cars? :gotme:

bored&stroked said:
I'll make you and denali domestic lovers yet, you'll see ;)
I already am one. :laugh: Look in my sig and see what cars have my interest right now. :D
 

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the 300C has a few too many MB parts and euro stlyin for me to consider it a true blue american car.

But regardless...

the G8 oughta be around when all the other zetas show up... around MY07-09
 

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damn, that'll probably be a lil late for me. ah well, maybe next time around :)
 

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SteVTEC said:
:Owned:

So why does this book I have say that GM imposed a 400cid limit on thier mid-sized and smaller cars? :gotme:
Cause its wrong :laugh: Biggest engines avalible from the factory: Chevelle- 454. Nova [2nd gen]=427. Vette-454. Camaro-454. All big blocks, all over 400cid.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
keep in mind, thats mostly a rant about times gone by, from 93-00 mostly, when dodge DIDNT have the srt-4, WASNT hamstrung by DC, and had some very stupid ideas about affordable performance cars. neons were fun, sure. the avenger was a hot looking car that would have sold well if it was fast, but what did they do? DEBORE an existing engine so they could have an underpowered loner that all the mags stuck in comparos with GST's and integras and probe GT's. if they had left the 3.0 well enough alone, they would have had a mid 15 auto car that would have done something for their image.

then you've got the stratus. same deal. heavy good looking car that handles decent already, and they stick a tiny engine in it.

now i know those are mitsu platforms with mitsu engines, but seriously. going with a 2.5 instead of the 3.0 in those cars was the dumbest thing dodge did in the 90s, imo.

the intrepid was ok with the 3.5. no problems here

but why not put the 3.5 in the stratus? the 2.7 isnt exactly a powerhouse, and its reliability record is bad to say the least. its like driving a smoother 2.4 car. the 3.5 in it would probly run low low 15s with the auto. and for that matter, why did they stop putting 3.3/3.8s in cars? they're cheap, bulletproof, and powerful. a 3.8 in a stratus now would run as well as a 3.5 would.

and what about the copperhead? sweetest dodge that never got built. half a decade later they've got the half-assed crossfire, thats nowhere near as good a move now as the copperhead would have been then. and its uglier to boot. at least you can get the amg supercharger now.


also, that 400 cid thing was true (at least the concept if not the number) in the EARLY 60s. all the big engine small car combos except the 64-65 gto were made in the later 60s when that rule was out the window.
 
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