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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
i have mixed feelings here...i believe any weight reduction is essential regardless high or low it will have positive effects...now if you were required to relocate a certain amount of weight without removing it then yes it should be as low as possible...i may agree with you if someone was attempting to fabricate their own subframe without knowledge of stress points and rigidity but honda created an aluminum subframe for the TL for a good reason im sure because it has more advantages than just alleviating weight
I think having the weight reduction would be a positive thing for the balance of the car, especially those of us who are running coupes.. as the rear end is significantly lighter then the rear end of the sedans (extra 2 doors, longer base etc). I would think that it would balance the car more and give it better traction and make it harder for the rear end to break lose under heavy breaking/ turning.....
 

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well, it turns out it is being harder then I thought to find out the shipping weight of these two parts, hopefully I will have some numbers today! Once I tell them I am calling from Canada they just say they won't ship such a heavy part.

Anyways, for anyone interested in giving it a go, and see what prices they can get here are the part numbers, I have added the weights that I was told:

05 Accord v6 6 speed sub frame is 50200-SDB-A01 (72 LBS)

06 TL sub frame is 50200-SEP-A03 (14 LBS)


So you are looking at saving almost 60lbs........ plus added rigidity and reduced vibration. It would also seem that all accord v6's use the same sub frame, and for the most part, all TL's use the same sub frame from 05-06.

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Taken from 2004 TL base 6MT. I pulled it off the vehicle in the junkyard myself. Everything on here is welded aluminum. Its all been formed and shaped in the factory and then MIG welded. There is nothing on here that's cast aluminum. Whatever differences that might exist between 04-08 TL manual transmission subframes are going to be too trivial and too minor to constitute ~30 lbs of weight difference (my 44.8 lbs vs the 14 lbs you were provided for the shipping weight). I will be installing this on my 2006 Accord Sedan V6 6MT in the next few weeks. I'll be sure to weigh the one from my Accord.

This URL shows a list to some of the different part numbers

It does appear that the 07 and 08 TL-S have unique part numbers.

Also, I'm not concerned with the differences in the part numbers. It could be something as minimal as a hole drilled in it for an additional plastic clip that holds the small hose for the liquid filled motor mounts.
 

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View attachment 21604

View attachment 21605


Taken from 2004 TL base 6MT. I pulled it off the vehicle in the junkyard myself. Everything on here is welded aluminum. Its all been formed and shaped in the factory and then MIG welded. There is nothing on here that's cast aluminum. Whatever differences that might exist between 04-08 TL manual transmission subframes are going to be too trivial and too minor to constitute ~30 lbs of weight difference (my 44.8 lbs vs the 14 lbs you were provided for the shipping weight). I will be installing this on my 2006 Accord Sedan V6 6MT in the next few weeks. I'll be sure to weigh the one from my Accord.

This URL shows a list to some of the different part numbers

It does appear that the 07 and 08 TL-S have unique part numbers.

Also, I'm not concerned with the differences in the part numbers. It could be something as minimal as a hole drilled in it for an additional plastic clip that holds the small hose for the liquid filled motor mounts.
How did you make out with this? I've always been SO tempted to try this on my car...The prices at the wrecking yards are coming down slowly for the subframe...but it seems like a ton of work to find out it doesn't fit (!?!?)
 

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2004 Honda Accord EX Coupe 6 - 6
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View attachment 21604

View attachment 21605


Taken from 2004 TL base 6MT. I pulled it off the vehicle in the junkyard myself. Everything on here is welded aluminum. Its all been formed and shaped in the factory and then MIG welded. There is nothing on here that's cast aluminum. Whatever differences that might exist between 04-08 TL manual transmission subframes are going to be too trivial and too minor to constitute ~30 lbs of weight difference (my 44.8 lbs vs the 14 lbs you were provided for the shipping weight). I will be installing this on my 2006 Accord Sedan V6 6MT in the next few weeks. I'll be sure to weigh the one from my Accord.

This URL shows a list to some of the different part numbers

It does appear that the 07 and 08 TL-S have unique part numbers.

Also, I'm not concerned with the differences in the part numbers. It could be something as minimal as a hole drilled in it for an additional plastic clip that holds the small hose for the liquid filled motor mounts.


Please keep me informed if this does work for a 2004 coupe ex v6 6 speed. I'll be doing the same thing. 5 pounds or no pounds of weight reduction, it's worth it in the end
 

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How did you make out with this? I've always been SO tempted to try this on my car...The prices at the wrecking yards are coming down slowly for the subframe...but it seems like a ton of work to find out it doesn't fit (!?!?)
It is by chance that I happened to checked this post. I think I just changed my settings so that I'll receive email responses for subsequent replies to this post.
Heads up; since 2006 I've been a resident moderator at Honda-Tech.com and I tend to watch over the transmission forum more than any other forum. I can usually be found there.
If not; here's my facebook page:
Log into Facebook

Moving on;
I do not have a picture, but I weighed the steel, Accord subframe at 69.9 lbs. The reason I don't have a picture is because I used the same bathroom scale as can be seen above, and it was difficult trying to balance the subframe on the 2x4" scrap block of wood that I placed on top of my bathroom scale and take a picture.

I did complete this and I've been driving with the aluminum subframe for over a year. Here is a small table that shows which subframes are compatible. Basically, any 2004-2008 TL subframe, whether AT or 6MT is directly compatible EXCEPT the 2007-2008 TL with automatic transmission. A lot of people think that it is the 2007-2008 TL Type S 6MT subframe that you need, and that it's the only aluminum one that is directly compatible with 2003-2007 Accord V6 6MT. This is not the case.
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Here are two pictures that I have sourced from this exact post on AcuraZine that show the differences between the 2007-2008 TL AT subframe vs the others.
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In the event that you've got one of these subframes, do not fret. As you can see in these pictures, the holes are already there. One can simply use a $20 angle grinder and chop off that AT bracket. Then you will need to use a large OD fender washer for the larger, top hole in the first pic. If you're smart, you will chop the AT bracket off in a way that will let you use the piece of this as your own washer / plate with hole drilled in it. If you go this route, you will likely need to extend the bolts for the lower, rear transmission mount. The threads are M10x1.25 -- if you're using the TL 6MT bracket, you can use a 7mm socket to remove the threaded studs from the cast aluminum bracket and use some longer ones. -- Alternatively, you could use something like these M10x1.25 coupler nuts that I found on ebay. It is surprisingly difficult to find coupler nuts in that size. I even considered using a standard sized coupler nut such as 5/16"-18 or 5/16"-24, drilling it out, and tapping it M10x1.25. However, you will need to use a coupler nut that has a larger sized width. For reference, for M10x1.25 threads, Honda typically uses a nut that is 14mm wide (the bolts that you use your 14mm socket on) -- You could try using something like one of these from mcmaster-carr -- the steel one is low strength, and only 7/8" long (22.225mm). The stainless version that they offer is $25 for a single, 3" long one. -- Better off using those ebay ones for $16 shipped from China -- or better yet, use longer M10x1.25 bolts. -- This also becomes an issue if you're using the lower, rear Accord mounts, because the M10x1.25 studs are welded onto the steel plate, as can be seen in the pics of the lower, rear transmission mounts for sale on rockauto.

Aside from this obstacle, you need to be mindful of the fact that the steel, Accord subframe has nuts welded onto it, and the fact that the aluminum has to be thicker for it to have equivalent strength as the steel subframe. The easiest way to go about this is If you're are pulling your subframe off of a TL in junkyard, make sure that you get every nut and bolt that threads into the subframe, or through the subframe.

Example.
The Accord subframe lower control arm has 2 bolts per side, no washers, no nuts
M12x1.25 - 87mm length
M14x1.5 - 94mm length

The TL subframe has 2 bolts, 4 washers, 2 nuts:
M12x1.25 - 89mm length
M14x1.5 - 100mm length

You will absolutely need these. It would be a good idea to replace these lower control arm bolts with new ones.

You will also need to use longer bolts for things like the front sway bar, the steering rack brackets, front engine mount, rear engine mount, amongst others. Also, if you are getting your subframe from a TL, you might want to grab leave the TL front sway bar attached, as it is larger than the Accords. If you do this, make sure that you also upgrade to the TL rear sway bar. The rear sway bar to use is 2004-2008 TL 6MT rear sway bar (2004-2006 TL base 6MT rear sway bar is the same as 2007-2008 TL-S AT / 6MT) - Specifically, this part number: 52300-SEP-A11

I wound up having to make several trips to the junkyard to get all the parts. I ran into a snag trying to find M14x1.5 nuts. M14x1.5 is a fairly common size for lug nuts. I wound up buying two individual ones from O'Reilly before grabbing the right ones from the junkyard. Also, you can purchase M14x1.5 nuts from Home Depot, but not Lowe's, however they're grade 8.8 instead of grade 10/10.9.

If you do this, I would strongly suggest replacing the rubber bits; all the bushings / grommets for the steering rack, and your front sway bar bushings.

Lastly, here is a small chart that I made that shows the net weight reduction, as well as the cost of each lighter component. Then the far right column shows $ per lb reduction, along with a green-yellow-red gradient that shows which is the most cost-effective weight reduction. I spent right around $70 for my TL subframe, making it THE most effective weight reduction possible that doesn't entail removing parts entirely from your vehicle (i.e. gutting your interior) -- note, that I haven't done all the things listed in this table.

Side note: the 3g TL 6MT / TL-S aluminum spare wheel (17") weighs more than the steel, Accord spare wheel (16") -- The 16" accord spare doesn't fit over my junkyard Rotora brakes, (330mm rotor), so if I get a flat up front, I'll have to move one of my rear wheels to the front, and put the spare on the rear (which I probably would do anyways)
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Here are links that show the differences in the parts

 
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