Okay since all of the specs are unknown. Which is better. I like the fact that tl-s cams are 450, RL are 610, and bisimoto are 733

First 2 are OEM so I don't have to worry about reliability, and can use OEM springs and valves.

Pros of each
Tl-s are hollow, can use tl-s retainers and springs, and can probably find a used set for cheap.
RL supposedly has .5 greater lift, can also use tl-s springs and retainers
Bisi can be grinded to any specs

Con's
Tl-s hyped? No one know the specs
RL, no one ever used it not even sure if they are hollow.
Bisi need to get after market springs and retainers so more money, also question about over all reliability


Any input? Kinda wish delta grind j series cams..

If you're not wanting anything beyond 325bhp, I'd stick with the oem cams...preferably the RL cams. They have much more torque and pull hard from down low all the way to the top of redline. There's a few people, including myself, that run the RL's and can confirm they are worth the cash. If you look in the right places, you will find j35a8 cams very easily. The j37a1 mdx cams are exactly the same as the TL-S cams regarding specs. Only difference is the MDX cams are splined lobes pressed onto hollow tubes that make them even lighter than the TL-S cams but cannot be used as cores for regrinds. The TL-S cams are slightly heavier but can be reground due to their solid design. IMO, the extra weight savings doesn't justify their use. However, the MDX cams are much cheaper.

If you choose to go with regrinds, you greatly broaden your power range. Stage 2 Bisi's are known to produce upwards of 350whp (or 400bhp) on the dyno. But you'll need to strengthen your valve train and invest much more money into the entire setup. Definitely NOT for the faint of heart. Expect 15-25hp lower from Bisi stage 1's depending on setup. One thing about the regrinds is the valve train geometry stresses from decreasing base circle. It is known to significantly add load to rockers and could cause premature wear/failure although I have yet to have heard from such.

You may even want to look into other companies such as Gude Camshafts or Web Cams for other regrind companies that offer camshafts for the j-series engines.

 

What do u plan to tune with?

 

Ethane piggy back for AFR. Still nothing for ignition timing ' and Ty yungone, your in formation has always been so helpful.

I just want to make 300whp, but I need reliability. I have rotation and I can't miss any of them.

RL sounds good right now since it looks like what I need without the extra cost of upgrading other stuff. Since this car is mostly daily driven. I can't be breaking stuff

Also the car will need to pass CA smog. So bisi stage 2 might be out of the question

 

Bisimoto cams are ground by Web camshafts. You can skip the middleman and go directly to Web. They will take good care of you.

Gude is either out of business or has a very bad reputation now, not sure.

Crower can do regrinds if a customer core is supplied. (Not Brian Crower, just Crower). They do regrinds for many engines that aren't advertised on their website. Best to call up and ask. Tom Stahl and/or Dave Crower are the guys for Import engines. Talk to either of them. Last time I went to them for an off-catalog regrind for an engine they hadn't worked on, they specced the core and sent me 3-5 possible grinds with lift, duration and valve timing specs. I chose one of them and that one was ground onto the cam.

I don't know much about the OE cams. Have any of them been degreed?

 

^ I don't have cores to send in. That's my issue, and the head I am buying won't have rockers or cams. So I need to transfer my assembly over

 

I will give you my old cams from my 06 j30. just pay me for shipping them to you.

 

Gude is a much smaller company than Web/Delta and because of this, they don't sell nearly as many as the others. However the old man has been in the camshaft business for many, many years. He's good people and is very knowledgable. A lot of people say bad stuff about them but underdogs always get that.

As for Web, last I talked to them (year ago), I was told that you must go through a vendor to buy cams from them. Bisi does work with Web but I know for a fact they do this only when they have to. Bisi has great cams and excellent customer service.

And I haven't personally degreed any factory cams but there are really only two cams worth using in a build. I've been told they have have a conservative duration and yet they still make great power.

Domino, what's your experience with the j-series?

 

Well, from personal experience, I've been burnt badly by dealing with Bisi. After spending a few thousand $$ on a track car (road racing) on his parts, we received a broken camshaft. This was a "billet" (which is basically Chinese chalk passed off as forged billet cores) core. The whole issue exploded on another forum and ultimately, Bisi himself tried to insinuate that I was trying to scam him by asking for free parts when no such thing had happened. Ended up losing about $600 on a paperweight. He has burnt a LOT of bridges in other Honda communities by selling headers that crack because of ****ty welds and calling anyone who criticizes him a hater. I've had enough of that man for one lifetime and if I want a Web grind, I go to them directly. Crower takes good care of me too. Jon at Delta is a very good friend too. I don't know if Colt Cams does any work on the J series. If he does, he's as good as any of them.

I have never heard that policy about Web Cams. If you call them up, they will work with you. Provided, you will not get the Bisi profile, but like Crower, they will give you their own grinds that they can do. At the end, as long as lobe centerlines are the same, a tiny difference in duration and/or lift is not going to change the cam characteristics massively. And too much cam doesn't make sense for this engine when you can have truckloads of tq right off idle. It is a heavy car after all.

I have no experience with the J series since it is my DD. Hence you see me trying to gather basic info like rod lengths, piston specs, etc. Once I buy a third car, I can have 2 project cars. Not right now, though.

 

I think where this thread is going. Please supply more info. But I think I am set on rl.

@yungone I pm on acurazine for cams

 

Got it. Text my phone so we can discuss in detail please.

 

I picked up my cams for 126 each Canadian, from acura2000

 

Yungone could you pm me your number. I didn't get it on acurazine or on v6p

 

In for RL cam dyno...would like to see that improvement on paper.

 

Improvement from what, stock cams? TL-S cams?

One thing most people don't consider when comparing the TL-S and the RL cams is how the RL was reported by Acura to have produced 4bhp more than the TL-S. The only difference between these two engines, although they were both j35a8's, was the RL cams had a tad more lift. That's it. Same compression. Same heads. Anything that had to do with power was the same. They both produced 256ft lbs of torque at 5k rpm's. They even both had horsepower peaks at 6200 rpm's. But like I said, the RL's extra lift made it a better cam for max power. And until this day, these cams continue to reign superior for the 1st and 2nd generation j-series head.

Once you start talking about the 3rd generation "z" j-series camshafts (which will NOT fit 1st/2nd gen heads), you'll notice Honda began doing something much different with them in regards to specs. For example, the j35z3 heads on the Accord actually started running lower lift on the intake lobes (primaries & secondaries) but substantially increased exhaust lift numbers. Though these motors make more power, I'm confident this mainly comes from the new head and valve designs which is said to increase power by 15hp alone when the 2007 mdx first debuted the new and valve design. I made this little chart a while back that clearly explains exactly what I'm saying about Acura's new direction. For cam specs, P is for primary lobe, M is for middle lobe (VTEC) and E is exhaust lobe. You can see what I mean, when the new designed heads were added, power significantly increased yet camshaft M lift decreased while E increased:

2007 Accord 3.0
244hp and 211tq
10.0:1
Cam P-35.041 M-35.445 E-36.326
New head/valve design- No

2009 Accord 3.5
271hp and 251tq
10.5:1 auto and 10.0:1 6-speed
Cam (auto) P-35.472 E-36.783
Cam (6-speed) P-35.621 M-34.299 E-36.760
New head/valve design- Yes

2008 TL 3.2
258hp and 233tq
11.0:1
Cam P- 35.041 M-36.445 E-36.326
New head/valve design- No

2008 TL 3.5
286hp and 256tq
11.0:1
Cams P-35.112 M-36.394 E-36.389
New head/valve design- No

2009 TL 3.5
280hp and 254tq
11.2:1 auto
Cam P-34.299 M-35.621 E-36.760
New head/valve design- Yes

2006 MDX 3.5
253hp and 250tq
10.0:1
Cam P-35.041 M-36.445 E-36.326
New head/valve design- No

2007 MDX 3.7
300hp and 275tq
11.0:1
Cam P-35.112 M-36.394 E-36.389
New head/valve design- Yes

 

Need a dyno in wv

 

Come to pa

 

Found some Info that Yungone posted up on j32a and transferred it here.

original post is found here
J37a1 cams? - j32a.com Forum

 

I just realized that the primary and secondary lobs on the accord and TL are 2 different spec.. wtf?

Also realize that the TL-S vtec cams are smaller than the accord, but the exhaust is large hmm.

Looks like RL cams are a better since there are no trade off. It is larger in every aspect

 

Here is why the accord and TL has 3 cam profiles.


3-Stage VTEC is a version that employs three different cam profiles to control intake valve timing and lift. Due to this version of VTEC being designed around a SOHC valve head, space was limited and so VTEC can only modify the opening and closing of the intake valves. The low-end fuel economy improvements of VTEC-E and the performance of conventional VTEC are combined in this application. From idle to 2500-3000 RPM, depending on load conditions, one intake valve fully opens while the other opens just slightly, enough to prevent pooling of fuel behind the valve, also called 12-valve mode. This 12 Valve mode results in swirl of the intake charge which increases combustion efficiency, resulting in improved low end torque and better fuel economy. At 3000-5400 RPM, depending on load, one of the VTEC solenoids engages, which causes the second valve to lock onto the first valve's camshaft lobe. Also called 4-valve mode, this method resembles a normal engine operating mode and improves the mid-range power curve. At 5500-7000 RPM, the second VTEC solenoid engages (both solenoids now engaged) so that both intake valves are using a middle, third camshaft lobe. The third lobe is tuned for high-performance and provides peak power at the top end of the RPM range.

 

Completely forgot about reading this. Only have one qualm with fully taking it as fact, isn't there only one VTEC solenoid down near the timing belt tensioner on this model?

 

No idea. It could vary the pressure between fully lock and half lock. That's just my guess

 

Another can option maybe?Gude Peformance Leaders Of High Performance Applications

KMS has valve spring, retainers, block guard, valves,
Honda Performance - KMS Engine Development

 

I msgd KMS on eBay about their ultimate valvetrain package and this was their reply:

Hi there. Yes we do still offer the V6 package. Our website is currently being updated, so I apologize for the it being down. The valve train package is $860. You can give us a call at 770-652-3538 to place the order. Thanks! KMS

 

Wtf?!? 860 it says 599. Lol I am going oem tho. So w/e

 

KMS (as well as others alike) make great valve train components but they're beneficial to those running aftermarket cams or modified rev limits. The valve train Honda supplies on their heads are prone to valve float just several hundred RPM's above redline. This is pre-j35z engines only. Not many have tested the boundaries of the j35z motors but I know two cars that are running the newer j35z and BOTH have upgraded valve train at only 350hp and I'm sure there's a reason for this.

 

If you are upgrading to lighter valves, the stock springs should be good for a few hundred rpm more. Assuming the cam being used is either stock or close to it in lift. There should be no requirement to move to stiffer springs which would effectively rob a little power due to frictional losses.

 

Here's me with the pedal to the floor. I had TL-S Cams, RL Throttle Body, UR Pulley, and Custom Exhaust.

It pulled very hard after 4.5RPMS and you can feel the VTEC engagement very nicely.

The TL-S cams were worth the money and actually did make a slight difference in acceleration.

Please excuse my shaky camera hand. hope this helps.

http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/quangbang123/media/VID_20121024_125744.mp4.html

 

Here's me with the pedal to the floor. I had TL-S Cams, RL Throttle Body, UR Pulley, and Custom Exhaust.

It pulled very hard after 4.5RPMS and you can feel the VTEC engagement very nicely.

The TL-S cams were worth the money and actually did make a slight difference in acceleration.

Please excuse my shaky camera hand. hope this helps.

VID_20121024_125744.mp4 Video by quangbang123 | Photobucket

Wow all that money spent on an AT?
But I must say your AT did seem faster than many others here.

 

Did u bump compression? Because from the looks of the cam spec TL-s vtec lobes are smaller then the accord. But there is no duration spec. But thank for the video.

 

This is true. The Accord and base TL 3.2 both have the same cams with a VTEC total height of 36.445 on intake side and an exhaust total height of 36.326. That's nearly half of a mm higher lift on intake between the TL-S cams and the Accord/base TL cams. But the RL cams have more lift on both intake and exhaust out of all cams. Now lift numbers are only half the battle here when comparing cams and power potential. We all know the other half is lift duration...or how long the valve is kept open. Long durations make for more horsepower (generally speaking) and shorter durations will normally increase torque production. Until we know actual durations of cams, we can only assume and make educated decisions based off of things we see. Like the j35a8 cams. They're different cams in regards to lift and more than likely duration as well. But, it makes more power than the TL-S cams AT THE SAME RPM IN WHICH PEAK POWER (AND TORQUE) IS PRODUCED. That's really the only cam this can be safely assumed being stronger than another because its peak power is made in the same RPM on an engine that's built and assembled using the exact same parts as the other...in other words: a common base test platform.

We are currently limited to around .480" lift on our motors not by the cam regrind limitations themselves (in regards to physics) but because of the cylinder head design. One of them being the size of the lobe that can be passed through cam bearing journals when installing the cam into the head and also the spring seat height limiting the lift (biggest problem of the two). In an engine, .480" intake lift can be very restrictive in small valve heads. Even those with two valves on intake. There are solutions and once worked through, people can expect sub-500bhp numbers with free flowing heads from these motors. True story.

 

here some part numbers and some pricing.
RL camshaft

No. Part Number Description Qty Req. List Price Our Price
1 14100-RJA-J00 CAMSHAFT, FR. 1 $381.93 $279.58
2 14200-RJA-J00 CAMSHAFT, RR. 1 $381.93 $279.58

Tl-S
No. Part Number Description Qty Req. List Price Our Price
1 14100-RDB-A00 CAMSHAFT, FR. 1 $381.93 $279.58
2 14200-RDB-A00 CAMSHAFT, RR. 1 $219.57 $160.72

2009 MDX
1 14100-RYE-A00 CAMSHAFT, FR. 1 $256.97 $188.10
2 14200-RYE-A01 CAMSHAFT, RR. 1 $256.97 $188.10

Intake springs
14761-RJA-003 SPRING, IN. VALVE (BROWN) (NIPPON HATSUJO) $5.69

Exhaust spring
14762-RJA-003 SPRING, EX. VALVE (BLUE) (NIPPON HATSUJO) $6.59

need 2 cylinder head gasket
12251-RCA-A01 GASKET, CYLINDER HEAD (NIPPON LEAKLESS) $31.60

 

I think I am going to install stock cams in the PnP head first. Then dyno/ tune. I want to see how much power can be gain from PnP alone.

Going to wait on Atlas dyno for his PnP head first tho.

 

With stock cams, I believe it's around 2-3hp gained with ported heads. That's because these heads flow so well. That and the stock cams are very limiting to our motors. It would be wasteful in both time and money to do such a thing.

 

Edit: Nvm got your invoice.